Therapeutic Recreation Talk Show Episode 5 Transcript

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[Music] hello and welcome to the tiara talk show
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I'm your host Hawk Robinson and today we have a special guest co-host Danielle
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Whitworth hello there joining over jitsi and hello it's acting up a little bit I
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don't know how much is her network connection or what's going on we're having a latency and lag it looks like yeah having some major latency
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there and so today we're is it's Tuesday
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October 22nd 2019 andr live every Tuesday from 1 to 2 p.m. Pacific time
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you can find the video archives live show links podcast files and more
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information at wwe.com this is episode
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number 5 so today we're going to discuss a number of topics as we usually do so
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but we'll also with coasts being here with Danielle's a pending her network
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connection cooperating be continuing to talk about our experiences at last
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month's American therapeutic recreation Association conference in Reno Nevada so
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some of the other topics we'll cover today include updates on the BCI Games Jam that's the brain computer interface
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information and an event coming up that recreation therapist might find of note
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some problems with the CTRs flash cards from the mometrix media we've seen all
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kinds of problems these are the study guides that are on Amazon that a lot of people use to try to prepare for the NCT
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RCS CTRs National Council for therapeutic recreation certifications certified
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therapeutic recreation specialist certification and there's a lot of problems of these cards we're going to
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talk about that especially in the context of the neuroscience of learning we've touched on a little bit before and
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we're going to go into a little more depth about that and what can be done to address the issues with these study
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guides that are really from a neuroscience perspective incredibly ineffective and and just very
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wrongheaded in their approach and we're gonna say so and we're gonna spell out solutions to that so that they can
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become more useful we also will mention a little bit about our upcoming training
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workshops and some of the webinars that will be coming up on the at recite that where you can earn some CEUs and also
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you should know that RPG therapeutics LLC does have some open positions you learn more about that at RPG
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therapeutics com they're looking specifically for CTR s's who have
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extensive knowledge with role-playing games games like Dungeons & Dragons Doctor Who call it through them many
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others it's very strict and stringent requirements so it's difficult to meet
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and if you're if you don't quite meet the requirements you might want to consider going over to the nonprofit
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organization RPG research volunteering there to fill in any gaps that you might have but both organizations are founded
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heavily upon recreation therapy therapy recreation neuroscience research
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psychology and so recreation therapists really will find themselves fitting in
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well into those organizations that use TR so extensively working with a wide range of populations from 2 years old to
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senior adults everything in between lots of special needs populations etc alright
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Daniela we back up and running did you reset your network ok all right
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in the in the future make sure you reset your network and hopefully it'll behave better so alright so now that you're
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back let's go ahead and start with covering your experience you know John has had a time to talk about his
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I spoke about mine when all three of us went to the atra conference in September
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in Reno and we're each kind of doing different things right we we we did our workshop together Saturday and then we
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kind of each win our different ways attending different programs so that we could cover more ground and then come
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back and discuss them and of course where there was the networking and all that and the other programs we're
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running out of the bus on the trailer so why don't you go ahead and start from the beginning when you first started interacting with folks and go from there
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our display with our bus and trailer and everything in the presentation right yeah now you joined our PG research yeah
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right yes he was showing up the trailer afterwards and everything he was he was
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totally engaged right the beginning that's right it was quite stoked and still is stoked
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yeah professor Emily Messina runs the TR Department use for washing University do
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you have any okay it's great yeah these good conversations but what were things that you talked about that you think
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people here will be interested in hearing about the things that were discussed yeah none of them none of them
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came to our tables when we were doing the the rapid what that's I mean the
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rapid mentoring thing none of them came to our table so well we still have to go
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through that purple clipboard of all the contacts to get back to so and where did
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it go because I had on the table now it's disappeared again somebody moved it
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yeah we have to find it again because we need to go through them call it ready some of that stuff now goes all the way back to Gen Con we still haven't called
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so so and that's kind of the antithesis
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of the holistic concept of rec therapy
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[Music]
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well well there was a couple of them as university' and BYU there were two of them they had seventeen and you call it
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you call them kids some of them were older than you when you say all these
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other people what examples were you using for them to consider
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yeah but you don't wanna you don't want to stick to only one because at a facility part of what we're supposed to
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do is offer a wide tool belt remember we're supposed to go through the recreation and leisure education phase
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with clients because when we do an assessment find out what they're interested in they have a limited scope
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of interests that are good for them you want to be able to offer them a wide tool belt to find what intrinsically motivates them right that was part of
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why one 2t ours because I had all these previous activity skills and everything both individuals groups and when I
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discovered tiaras doing the research into different professions I was really looking at child psychology and such it
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was great because I had a background in painting and photography and outdoors
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and automotive and you know extreme sports and yeah yeah and basketball and
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all that so it was very appealing to be able to bring in that wide toolset
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so when you say focus on just one modality I'm kind of surprised that
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I married a modality place a oh right
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right mm-hmm and music we do the drum
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circles and such too so so how do they
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react to that how do they react to you saying that because you're providing the
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service whether they're a kid walked in
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off the street the same treatment versus
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when you're in a care facility and you're working with adults you'll have
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you filled that tool set a lot bigger that's kind of also a thing with TR is that you have this huge tool belt that
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they try and have you leave college I know pottery and drawing and all these
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are the pro skills that I'll probably not use in our company
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because I feel like music and music and
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music don't forget the music you never
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know I can totally think of a LARP scenario that would completely fit that for example if we did a dystopic LARP
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scenario that was basically a Mad Max type setting that would be totally yeah
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all kinds of fun stuff there cuz because you know I used to teach the American automotive Institute so so I could
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totally come up with a scenario that put to use our mechanic knowledge in the LARP session so if they played a
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character that was a mechanic and needed to keep the vehicle going in a dystopic zombie world setting or something
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totally so you never know that's the beauty of it when you have these other skills and we don't we don't want to
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talk too much about the RPG stuff because that's what the RPG talk show is for but that that's certainly yeah so so
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point taken sure sure right right so what did what
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did what are some things you learned when you were there either from the workshops are talking to other people etc we tried to spread out we tried to
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go to different ones rather than all go to the same one so that we could compare and contrast yeah
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and what stood out for you from that one [Music]
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right the regular check-in meetings right yeah right which is something that
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that we're kind of doing with our training sessions and we need to maybe formalize a little bit more here or over
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RPG research but yeah it's an important process well we've got all those
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volunteers we're training and stuff so it you know though it's certainly a process we should work on but you know
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we've done it already with the LLC when you guys came up on your 90-day review you know we sat down and talked about
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what was working wasn't working on the races and such yes right over RPG
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research I agree I agree it's it's definitely creating some administrative challenges
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so what else and stuff to them first
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because if they're yeah the way it's set up so that was pretty much all I learned was that we could
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have multiple interns as long as we have that one-on-one care and I have 40 hours
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a week right Alice good look I think what else has learned from the other workshops so I went to designing and
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marketing at for therapeutic use of
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applications of marketing and development assessment tools and I found
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an assessment tool which I was hoping to and that for me a bit though this is the
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use of it so these are tools to help recreation therapists market or you said
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the therapeutic use of marketing I've run that I mean the use of eye I said it
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backwards okay so we're using that to market our therapeutic programs so there's two kind
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of heads to this there was businesses that are out in the community and need
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to market to the community to get people in and then there was in in her
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workplace marketing mmm-hmm we don't have a ward ceremonies but one of the
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coolest things I saw that would be helpful for someone who it's in TR where they're in a facility where TR is a
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small portion of it is that they have award ceremonies and they invite management to come and give out the
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awards and then during the award ceremony when you receive a ward you have to tell the all the people there
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why you what you like about the program mm-hmm and why it is a value to you so
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you're letting your patients market for you for more people to be sent to your groups and for your department to expand
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which is very important for us a lot of people then for our side there was a few
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things with marketing within our own um with our own organizations I think would
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be really important for our Fiji research myself but you take this survey
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and you figure out where you're weak or strong and since we're all volunteers
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I'm very interested to see how the gambit of volunteers sees our marketing
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mm-hmm out in the world um because I my my theory is that they don't see all of
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the time that you spend on Twitter and Facebook I don't spend those last year
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so you have spent now going out to the conferences or talking to people who
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send you emails and some of that nature they don't see that marketing by far the best results have been from the
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brochures that that's like by far the best results the what's that well no but
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again they got passed around and people spread the word cuz of it I mean we do all of the web
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stuff were you know Google number one search engine all of that but yet we
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have no formal marketing campaign we were putting one together and then our marketing person backed out after a few
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months of putting work in and then didn't give us any of the materials that she'd started on so we were back to
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square one with that but the idea was somebody else was supposed to take over focusing on that marketing and and so we
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we have no marketing we had a marketing campaign last year that I ran and it tripled our donations and raised
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awareness but it took up an awful lot of my time every day and and the return was
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still too small and so I said you know told the board I wasn't gonna do that this year we need somebody else to manage that so the other part is that
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resonation zuv you know flattened yes they have uh as I've been going through
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it I can tell you that for 100% sure the other part was that they gave us a few
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good ideas for marketing outside of that where we would run for the AIC corporate
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because that's what they used in their context corporate retreat do you like things for the community yeah don't you
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many times it's not like that and that's why I use quotations it is where you
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take the heads of programs that you want to set up so you take someone from the
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VA hospital you invite someone from SPARC central you like from someone from a nursing home somewhere where you're
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looking to put programs either for our research or for our PG therapeutics to put in context for our organizations and
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you run a tabletop and a LARP a shortened version for those people in
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the idea is that you're marketing to them for their clients and that it is
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big and it is open to the heads of different companies that's wonderful
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utopic ideal to bring them from different organizations I've been able to do it in an organization where I
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bring in Edd's to do that but doing that across multiple organizations who might be
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competitors who you know completely different schedules that sounds really
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problematic across multiple organizations it was more like an open gala like right like idea and I thought
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that would be kind of interesting to see if we could even do something yeah if it was done in conjunction with some other
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event atra or a jobs fair or something like that yeah then then that might be
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viable but you know we need space and pay for it all of that so yeah those are all possibilities when there's funding
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and yeah when there's funding I thought that was open up with us funding I I
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think that would be a really great idea for once we have more light so let's
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let's try to change less about yeah let's keep this less about our businesses and more about what others in
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the PR industry could learn who may be students right for that for the Cure industry for this what you could take
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away from this is that idea of a gala which I just used us as an example the
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idea of doing award ceremonies where you bring down people from the higher up and
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that also shows your evidence based practice because you can talk about that a little bit while you're there and then
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this is mostly from this one what we're doing is we're breaking down
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the barriers to administrations physicians other therapists in your your
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area the community that you would invite so like you have a parent that doesn't
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understand why this is important and their child's in a facility and this is what all they talk about and you don't
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know why they have recreation and then also it's good for other clients especially if you have new clients that
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was one of the big things that they talked about on that okay um what else
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the other major one that I went to ODA there's two more left when I didn't take
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notes for it but this one I did it was a mighty pin and they used a website which
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did not write down for their basis it's another what is that called
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certification that you can get for writing using therapeutic writing I
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think it was a P something it was for
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therapists if you don't have the info
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let's look let's move on then but it was another thousand hours that you could
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get to implement writing better okay um and it's basically a whole nother ba if
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you look at how many classes and stuff like yet that you have to take do and is
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it a creditor yes its accredited that's why um it is basically like giving
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another PA except for you had a certification instead of a BA okay would
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I do sir it was a pen that I see the Virginia War Memorial announces the
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mighty pen project to teach writing class for military veterans and others how does this machine turns okay that's
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so that was just what you need yeah no it's not called but mighty pen
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but the writing workshop was called the mighty pen okay um so unpack that what
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what is significant about that particular kind of program why would somebody consider going through all
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those extra hours and everything else will so why you would go through all those extra hours and stuff of that nature is
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so that you had a better understanding of how to use writing therapeutically so
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you don't accidentally stumble into somewhere where it's too dark you're all
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alone in this room with ten students and you don't know how to move on because
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they're talking about not just like what we do where we write down you know how
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you felt about the adventure and maybe write a letter to your your character and then the character writes a letter
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back they're talking about taking other pieces of work and either
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like blinking it out so that the words that they want are left or writing homes
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or all of this stuff especially in drug
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rehab was her example and how they either it's challenged my choice
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so you just have to write a poem right they sit down that day you have to write a poem they teach you a little bit about a style of poem and then you talk about
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it afterwards everyone has to share there's no apologies that was one thing I really liked is that they didn't they
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told you you cannot apologize for how you wrote you wrote what you wrote and that's your level and no apologies
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that's how we play no it's one of the rules for hacky sack is you don't apologize because otherwise no reason
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sorry sorry-sorry sorry-sorry all the time but it gets really annoying that's
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pretty much what he said and it allows you to build up confidence about your writing because people compliment you on
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it right yes it's a built confidence yep yeah one thing she has is that they
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almost always go right for their deepest darkest thing and put it out on paper
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and then give it out to the group and then they they break it down a little
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bit if it's appropriate if not you just say wow that was great and move on because but knowing that when to unpack
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someone's writing and when to not mmm is really why she said the certification
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was yeah important at all and she didn't have the certification and her
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supervisor had the certification and supervise her through getting to a point where she could be alone with these kids
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doing these activities so she said that it was actually very appropriate for one
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person in an organization to have this extra certification and to Train everyone else to have done this and then
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just do checkups and making sure that you're executing it appropriately mmm
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and that if you're using it as an end addition that having the certification
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probably isn't important okay so and then the last one that I went to you
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which was probably all right well this one was a lesson but the one before this that was probably the most fun and the
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most informative for me because it strictly relates to what we do is the
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drumming two-part workshop mmm so the
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first part we talked almost solely about theory and why this works and they did a
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they have their powerpoints saved on our thing I do not have access to it right
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now but how they're using it to do a study right now
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for individuals with developmental disabilities and physical disabilities
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who think it was California's one of
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California's programs okay um and I also
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got to meet the person who is not a therapist who has been running the drum buss which is actually I found out by
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looking at your stacks of videos a while back one of the people that we actually
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have watched for training Oh from the the drumming trainee videos yes so it's
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the same guy it's the same guy okay who does the the Hawaii and other retreats and such with okay or not the Hawaii
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treats it was one of the other ones so we watched it wasn't the main guy but was one of the guys okay uh and what he
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did is he showed us some different drumming techniques for therapeutic
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intent mhm and that he only does when he has a recreation therapist or
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occupational therapist on-site again question mark occupational therapist was
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like facial therapist to have to do with drumming or and psychologist is was the other one that was there I don't know
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why well it's because okay so tea has been encroaching into the little wreck
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world so they're just not trained for it it's bizarre yeah it's unfortunate that
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they're doing group activities that there might be and over their side their scope yeah mm-hmm so what he was doing
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because this is his scope I guess that because they're just watching one or two clients maybe that would be why why oh
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sorry I can hear myself now all of a sudden hmm uh you could try refreshing
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your browser if you want yeah I'm gonna refresh my browser good she'll be right
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back shortly just sometimes every now and then jitsi backs up a little and quick browser refresh can usually
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address it so we'll see if that helps or any welcome back welcome back all right
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glad to be back so what he was doing for drumming which is different than what we
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did he taught us the techniques that we use techniques that should be used for you guys which is Rumbles
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so that's starting off by just banging your drum and then getting louder quieter or faster slower and he didn't
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actually have to directly tell us much which was interesting there was no front
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loading to the drum circle which which is very I think important for people to understand myself I don't front-load so
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we were doing the drop the rumbles and all the little things like that getting
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louder and quieter call and repeat where we I did something and then they did something that I did something but what
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he did to give it a therapeutic aspect was then he added I feel and then blank
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so you were telling about your feelings and then I'm waiting yeah yeah I've seen that I I went through a drumming
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workshop about ten years ago that did something like that creating a I feel
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and then usually I feel then they made like a a different noise like happy yeah
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yeah yeah and that of that then translated to other people and let other
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people know where you were and by in the mid everyone weary came back to it and everyone was feeling great or
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happy or excited or energized what early same they were only saying they were
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more energized afterwards okay so ah or
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yeah or at least sing so at first everyone was like I feel Russian it wasn't it wasn't dirty Christian he
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wasn't Toby Christiansen right no okay cuz so I had a lot of one-on-one
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training in shamanic healing drumming and such with the guy that goes by the name healing drummer and fascinating
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fellow he was touring through here regularly and then he got too big do come to Spokane so now he just is like
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Seattle New York and places around the world as such and he was already a really good percussionist and he tells
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his personal story of how he was a bigwig sales guy for BMW or something
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and got really arrogant and cocky and full of himself and that led to a divorce and then his career crashed and
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then he really had to do a you know like look at himself hard he went on a
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spiritual search eventually ended up talking to some shamanic drummer in Africa and then she trained him and
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that's his his story but he's kind of I think gone back into his old place if
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he's gotten a little big edit from it's it seems like anyway but he doesn't
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listen what's it Michael Liston that sounds familiar
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yeah that sounds familiar yeah that's because we've watched that and watched his tape on okay the other thing well
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the thing about Toby is he's able to explain the therapeutic benefits of the
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drumming five different ways if you will if you want to hear it from a physiological perspective he'll explain
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what happens with the parasympathetic system and the heart rate and the breathing all that if you want to hear
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it from a physics perspective he'll talk about how the vibrations and sound waves and how they synchronize with the cells
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and our bodies and you know just a hole physics level and such if you want to hear from different spiritual
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perspectives he'll do from the animist perspective of you know your spirit guide and these creatures
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and all these spirits what have you bringing that from from where he trained from in Africa if you want to do it from
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a kind of India perspective with your chakras and your energy flow and things
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like that so he has these different perspectives very fascinating and but it's a while he does groups he
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specifically does a lot of one-on-one healing drumming and it can be for
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different things as pretty fascinating I don't know how much I shared with you guys that experience did I share much
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with you guys about that yeah you shared at least with me and John I don't know
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if anyone else was here for that because we haven't done a lot of emphasis on drumming in a while yeah this year
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anyway yeah we've got a new volunteer who he didn't want to do the RPG stuff
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that he auditioned for actually the show but he's very excited about the music and so he might help us get that
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division ramped back up again but yeah so yeah there are physiological effects
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from drumming individually and in groups and and it can be a very powerful modality with a lot of benefit and we've
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had write we've done our drum circles we've had kids as young as two years old banging on them bongos like a chimp fest
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kids especially the little kids that are like right at that age where they're like just about comprehending and
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they're not just like great was when we
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did that down at the up at the park that one time the Southfield mark I'm
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blanking no Manito and there was that kid who I think it was - yeah he kind of
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got on the big drum in the center stage there and was loving it and everybody else started to play off of him that was
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really good he loved the age where you
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almost understand everything but you don't quite so you were like almost giddiness to be going and then you like
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and he was just I mean he was just happy as a clam yeah that was great yeah okay well very cool so so that
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that's we'll definitely need to let's get another session we're gonna need to work out try to get our music
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program up and running again here I got to get a couple of djembe heads replaced now that was anything you were talking about was he was talking about the Remo
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heads versus the others and such yeah and so he keeps all of his Remo drums in
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his bus rain snow shine and they haven't
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cracked but he has cases all right and the cases cost as much as the drums
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yes so well actually for Remo drums they're less than the Remos but the Remo cases cost more than some of the drums
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so that's the problem is I would love to have more Remo stuff but they're easily three four times the price there's a
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couple big donations is what he was saying okay so on their radar for that's
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somebody talking about on the board thing okay so so that's great that's another that's another Matt was there anything else that you went through that
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wanted to point out for mattre you talked to some key people I did I mostly
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it's being at the level I am and I heard
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the most part was putting people to other people however I did have a great
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conversation with the person who does I
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cannot remember his name it's right at the tip of my tongue for the book publisher Thomas Plaskett
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oh what Thomas plash go for I de Larbre yes yes we stood there and had several
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great conversations about what he was doing five ten years ago with the with
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therapeutic recreation textbooks and then what he's doing now which is all of
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the spiritual versions of um like finding your spiritual self and this
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holistic more shaman like whole body
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thing he's doing now which was very interesting so he has two sides of his
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publishing so one of the things are there so we already had the red book with all the assessment tools that we've been using a lot of but he had
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recommended I check out this green book because it had more assessment tools and
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how to build assessment tools but we went through it verbally because you
50:43
introduced me to him we and and we talked and he seemed very interested in what we're doing cuz we're trying to create several new assessment tools
50:49
between our observed immersion scale our activity assessment tools because the
50:55
current I've talked about on multiple shows now about how activity assessment tools are the foundation of therapeutic
51:01
recreation and yet there's no that I can
51:07
find anywhere talking to him talking abrade atra talking every day on the aptril list talking on the Facebook
51:12
pages everywhere I go asking is there anywhere a an established activity
51:20
analysis form that has been evaluated for validity and reliability and nobody
51:26
can answer that every is like well we have this one we use in our facilities and like yeah I can I see it like well
51:32
some of them yes someone oh they said they're all based on these these books that which I have all of them pretty
51:38
much and none of those hold up especially inter-rater reliability so
51:43
none of them have been assessed and it is a cornerstone of recreation therapy and so I'm really you know this is
51:51
something I hate to reinvent the wheel but if it hasn't been created and the tools that are out there are faulty I
51:58
don't want our research to be just as faulty so we've been working on and off on you know our own activity analysis
52:06
form that will hold up to iterate a reliability and try to get all the other validity and reliability established and
52:12
one of the key things is getting away from the blank spaces filling in the
52:17
blanks that's really really bad for consistency you need to have you know
52:23
controlled options etc where we saw really good coefficients on that was the
52:29
true and false yes and no responses those were consistent the most part point 8.9 or better but as
52:38
soon as you got into the scales with with descriptions or any of the fill-in-the-blanks completely falls
52:43
apart and it didn't seem to matter if I took it to an experienced rec therapist or one who's just you know through
52:51
school or somebody who's not it just was way off and amongst people in our
52:59
organization that have the same discussed these these these concepts
53:07
together and have a very similar but ideally different way of filling out the form and that is really bad for the
53:14
clients and that tells me there's a major flaw here that needs to be that's why I keep bringing it up so anyway he
53:19
recommended that the green book measurement for leisure services and leisure studies by monir are ragab a PhD
53:27
because it tells you the whole process of building assessment tools and so I'd
53:34
run through him what we'd already been doing before I bought this I had to order this on lines and I was tired of money at the time because we were
53:40
worried if I have enough gas to get home for good reason after such a busy summer I told you somewhere between 10 to 20
53:46
grand and gas I spent this summer our number somewhere around $1,000 yeah that
53:52
that was because after my cards are all maxed out we had to tap into that but so
54:00
anyway I got this later and he recommended it looks great and I'm excited to really delve into it but we I
54:05
run by him what we were doing as a process and he said it sounded like we were totally on the right track this
54:10
will just help us have a more refined detailed process so we're on the right track and we're gonna keep improving it
54:16
and that's very exciting and then yes we have these several assessment tools and it was great geeking out with him about
54:21
that well I got a geek out with him a little bit too because I found out that
54:26
he's I um I found out that he had a secretary at the last 10 years who he
54:34
really really helped build self-esteem and use these terror concepts in a work
54:40
setting to allow her to build up more self-esteem and become more confident because he hired her knowing that she wasn't
54:47
gonna like immediately do all these things correctly but that overtime she
54:53
would be able to have these skills and be able to perform at a high level knowing that he could really help her as
55:00
a person and she each of that over people who had 10 years worth of desk work job stuff yep
55:08
well seen potential in people I've hired people straight out of high school no degrees no certifications into tech for
55:15
example because I could tell they had what it would take with the right mentoring and it's that
55:21
whole mentorship model that is can be very powerful I mean it depends on who's
55:27
doing the mentoring but it there's certainly it's unfortunate that a lot of places have lost that a lot of the
55:33
vocational stuff and a lot of the the mentorship approaches have disappeared heavily from back in the 70s there was a
55:40
lot and a lot of that's been killed off in the more recent decades unfortunately so I've tried to continue that with
55:46
people I've mentored in photography and automotive and tech you know computer
55:52
tactics after I may have gone on to have great careers so I also had a few conversations that are very great with
55:59
sagamore publishing okay and they're sending me the book because the guy had to leave early for their work book to
56:07
get prepared for the therapeutic recreation CTRs yeah right there yeah
56:12
we're still so you've you finished your degree you did your internship you just need to take the test yep I'm just
56:20
really nervous about this test so speaking of which I had that on the
56:27
topic I'm glad that's a perfect segue when do you expect to get that book have you contacted them yeah well they
56:32
contacted me last week in the earliest they could send it out with yesterday and so it should be in the mail today or
56:40
tomorrow all right yeah so we'll have to review that so here I want this one is by Stumbo and
56:47
Gerson so hopefully it's better because these mometrix media NCT our exam study
56:54
guides and cards oh my goodness
56:59
we've talked about it over and over how bad they are yeah for another $60 I
57:05
could get the color-coded ones by stumbo okay I hope they're a lot better than
57:12
these because this is so the mometrix ones which have been around for years
57:17
they keep revising as the NC TRC revises they I don't think they revised it for the latest changes but still mostly
57:23
applicable the biggest problem is they completely ignore what neuroscience says
57:28
about learning right so here's one we went through recently so the one side is
57:36
outline the following elements of competency cultural educational language
57:41
spiritual and environmental remember this one yeah it was so comfortable
57:46
here's the question just it's just not broken into manageable bite-sized pieces
57:52
so there's a concept in neuroscience and thinking about with learning called
57:57
chunking and most human beings depend upon the theory ascribed to can only
58:02
handle 5 plus or minus 2 chunks of data at a time and this affects us with
58:09
language with numbers and with concepts so a chunk could be different things so
58:15
for example if I give you ABC FBI CIA
58:20
and you know those accurate those acronyms and such those are not going to
58:26
be 7 or 9 chunks even though there's seven or nine letters there because
58:31
they're familiar to you yeah each one or a separate chunk but if I lay out and
58:38
when I start to get up around 7 to 9 you're gonna start having trouble remembering all of them but because you
58:44
have familiarity with those you can chunk those together but if I say to you Z X - 9 5 3:17 Y just random stuff that
58:55
you're not familiar with it's gonna be much harder for you to chunk those as separate pieces and so it's going to be
59:01
closer to once I start getting up around 12 characters or so you're gonna be like I can't remember all that it becomes
59:08
very very difficult to do and language works that way well it doesn't matter what the
59:14
languages and this is where there can be different this is where a lot of assessment tools that are Western
59:19
developed have problems when they run into other cultures because of the language it's not just that the even
59:25
ones translated the tests don't work the same because the Chungking changes so
59:30
I'm trimmin of the exact example but so for example in you know English our
59:35
numbers are a certain way and in mandarin they're completely different right with the characters and everything
59:41
and there's a lot more going on there when you look at a Chinese numerical number then you know Arabic numerals
59:50
right and so that can be really problematic when you're doing IQ tests
59:55
and things like that because you're dealing with ideographs and pictographs you know with different languages as
1:00:01
opposed to characters that form sounds so these all have different effects and
1:00:06
then you also deal with so complex words so you'll do a series of words for testing IQ and capacity and some it when
1:00:16
they translate into another language it doesn't work so one word might be one
1:00:22
syllable in one language but three syllables in another language and those three syllables will make it harder for
1:00:28
them to recall because you're gonna use up more of available cognitive capacity what's that yeah so so we have limited
1:00:38
capacity in general there's a bell curve of human beings you know of everything and in the majority of people the
1:00:45
neuroscience of learning which generally does not focus on abnormal psychology and disabilities that focuses on trying
1:00:52
to figure out just how things work in on average and then you have abnormal neuroscience and neuro psychology and
1:00:58
such but that that's a specialty and you know we were talking yesterday about the debunking of learning styles that that
1:01:07
there is no such thing as a learning style there are people who need adaptations for different disabilities
1:01:14
but on average everybody learns the same there there's there's a best way to learn the best for everyone
1:01:21
some people might need some adaptations for very specific disabilities but over
1:01:26
all you want to try to use the same learning techniques those are the most effective techniques and so what you
1:01:34
Swire school teachers are going to more of a choose-your-own-adventure
1:01:39
like well some are all of California has
1:01:46
that curriculum and I was actually written bought for the individual they have children with disabilities it's
1:01:52
actually written by UW professor couple set know what that cool should get more
1:01:59
info let's talk about that on our PG talk show or something so but one of the
1:02:06
main concepts and and most people know this generally but are really bad about following it and that is differential
1:02:14
learning versus mass learning more simply cramming versus spreading it out
1:02:20
doing a little bit at a time and layering it in or trying to shove it all in there and all too often all even
1:02:27
those of us who know better cram for midterm cram for finals we get through
1:02:33
the test we don't do as well as we would have hope but we get by and even if we got a hundred percent we still don't
1:02:38
feel good about it because we know we're not really retaining it and a month later if you were quizzed again you'd completely fail the test none of it
1:02:44
really sticks long-term and that's why I'm afraid to take the test because I did a lot of pumping and dumping yes
1:02:51
yeah doesn't work and it doesn't work so the key is small a little bit layer it
1:02:59
in a little bit at a time differential learning is the key and we're trying to help you with that with the proposed schedule where you noticed I have
1:03:05
quizzes at the beginning and end of every session including adding TR quizzes at the end as well just short
1:03:12
ones five minutes not really long so like one card so for example this one we you know we asked you outline the
1:03:19
following elements of competency for cultural educational language spiritual environmental well there's a number of
1:03:25
things wrong with this card so that's the question that that's that's not totally an unreasonable format for the question that's fine but then that's the
1:03:32
answer they're expecting you to give you're supposed to be able to answer all
1:03:37
of that from one prompting of a flash card now this is expected on the test
1:03:42
that you can do this but a flashcard is supposed to be what what do you mean the
1:03:48
test is mostly no I know there's multiple choice and I understand that but but you're supposed to know this
1:03:54
much material but this is not how you get it to stick in your head more
1:03:59
clearly instead what you do is you would ask one question say outline the elements of competency of cultural
1:04:06
competency leave it at that and then just cover that much just the cultural competency paragraph then you say
1:04:13
outline the elements of educational comp see that's another card this right here
1:04:19
is one two three four five cards in one that's how you break it up and there's
1:04:24
and you could break it down even more and be even that much more effective but this should at least be broken down if I could not only that so it answers the
1:04:33
the it answers cultural educational language and environmental right has the
1:04:39
answers it forgot spiritual and physical it doesn't even have them on here
1:04:45
really really I had to write question marks because okay well some physical
1:04:51
they left off completely on both sides but they asked the question about spiritual and spiritual isn't even on
1:04:57
the answer for the card so I wrote in spiritual and physical there because those are all part of what you're
1:05:02
supposed to know and it's not even in the card Wow like every we just randomly
1:05:08
pulled these cards out and quiz on them in every single card we found just about is like this I don't know who these
1:05:15
mometrix folks are but they are clueless about learning and then if you look at their study guide like I got the Kindle
1:05:21
which is the study guide all it is is basically saying there's a whole bunch
1:05:29
in numbers just paragraphs and paragraphs of stuff it it's yeah I mean
1:05:38
and then it the only good thing is it does have a whole bunch of quiz questions that you know a B C or D so it
1:05:43
emulates the test and so we're gonna do some of that with you but when it goes into the answers for your studying
1:05:50
answers and explanations are there not even paragraphs per se
1:05:56
they're just fine that's why I discussed the one after yeah I'm hoping that one's much better now is that available on the
1:06:03
market or is that only yeah okay that's available if you go to say more publishing not if it's not on Amazon
1:06:09
that's why we couldn't find it right no it's on Sagamore yeah they that that kind of hurts them that they don't do
1:06:15
that more nuts and that's another TR thing is it's too siloed yeah right so
1:06:20
here's something I ran into I highly suggest if you're gonna buy a book buying a trick from the publisher um it
1:06:27
cuts out the middleman and Yuki it's a lot cheaper no not always rut lucky Rutledge screws you over
1:06:34
completely if you try to buy from if they'll even sell directly a lot times I try to go through anyway it totally varies I've usually gotten
1:06:41
better deals from other sources because they can do bulk purchases and get you better discounts usually I buy it
1:06:48
individually that's what textbooks I've found that it's better to buy trick from publisher
1:06:53
yeah I haven't experienced that consistent oh they're bento was AG more and with Idol Arbor and there was one
1:07:03
more we don't have much choice with those there's not a whole lot of options seem to buy ammo PR field mm-hmm um
1:07:10
eighty field almost all of their books eighteen which are sag more athletic
1:07:15
training okay um there would you most of them are sack more to buying direct from
1:07:20
publisher cuts the price almost in half okay and that's their particular model
1:07:26
others it goes the other direction so totally varies they want you to buy from
1:07:32
them they get a better cut yeah it varies what was I going to say okay
1:07:41
we're talking about these darn it oh you had to deal with the the the
1:07:50
books in them the books
1:07:55
that's fall out of here okay let me look
1:08:01
at my outline here maybe it'll remind me okay because cuz you went down that rabbit hole now
1:08:07
don't remember what the other point was going to be related to it okay so learning oh oh oh I know it was
1:08:18
okay so you know RPG therapeutic LC is now a Better Business Bureau a plus
1:08:24
accredited organization that just happened last week and one of the things
1:08:31
that is distressing that I've run into multiple times right into with Google I've run into it with the government with different government agencies is
1:08:37
when you select your industry right what profession you are doing Oh where'd you
1:08:44
go Danielle we lost her again okay well
1:08:56
I can continue this when you go to select your interests in the pulldown menus for example on Google I want to
1:09:02
list RPG therapeutics LLC's business you know Google business page as either
1:09:07
therapeutic recreation or recreation therapy or both as one of the the things that we do there is no Google category
1:09:15
business category for either if I go to the Better Business Bureau and I want to
1:09:21
list my category there is no category for recreation therapy or 30 progression
1:09:26
there is for occupational therapy there is for music therapy on both these sources this once again tells me that we
1:09:34
are doing a really poor job great migration therapy yeah doing a really
1:09:40
poor job in recreation therapy in getting out there and getting us notice
1:09:45
because if there's not even a pulldown in Google or the BBB or any these places that list recreation therapy or therapy
1:09:50
recreation but music therapy and occupational therapy are listed which are more specialized especially music
1:09:55
therapy is more specialized we're doing something very wrong and in this industry to not get in there and I've
1:10:02
been doing my darndest to try to get them to fix that I have multiple times contacted Google about this I've now
1:10:08
filed a request through the BBB and my case manager is supposed to be handling trying to get that up the chain to the
1:10:15
board you know it'll take months for them to review it but try to get them and I send them links about from
1:10:20
the Bureau of Labor Statistics to show that there are many thousands of recreation therapists you know servicing
1:10:26
many many many thousands of clients this is a viable industry and it should be listed why am I having to do this I'm
1:10:35
not a lobbyist I'm you know I don't work for a TRO or any of the others I have a
1:10:41
private practice and you know a non-profit and all of that it should somebody somebody should be doing this
1:10:47
where is all of our at remember ship money going to if it's not going to the
1:10:52
the lobbying and marketing that it should be going to that's usually what these professional organizations supposed to do ot has been doing a great
1:10:59
job with marketing to the point where they're they're driving RT out of some places do you know taking over the
1:11:05
leisure side so I'm very concerned because I've you know I've been I've only been in the TR industry for about
1:11:10
15 years coming up on 16 years you know some more than some less than a lot of
1:11:15
others you know there's others have a far more veteran in this and and I'm and
1:11:21
I think it comes back to my original hypothesis or my original theory that I want to put a hypothesis for testing
1:11:27
that there's an extremely high level of ADHD in the TR industry yeah
1:11:34
I was talking to Thomas about that he was kind of like what hmm what's that
1:11:42
from i de Larbre yeah well like everybody i talked to who's been in the industry long enough they kind of at
1:11:49
first go know that well you might have something to professor Emily Messina
1:11:57
wants to help with this and it wouldn't be that hard a study to do I mean we
1:12:03
need to get an IRB waiver and then we would or maybe oversight because we will be asking mental health questions but
1:12:09
we'll have people fill out an online survey and the tricky thing with ADHD is there's a lot of misdiagnosis
1:12:14
unfortunately because general practitioners and others aren't equipped to diagnose and they do it anyway they're trying to be helpful but there's
1:12:21
problems to that but so we would have to ask a multistage question that says things like do you believe you have ADHD
1:12:27
if somebody ever said you have ADHD did you ever get a diagnosis from a GP teacher or somebody else teachers are
1:12:33
supposed to do diagnosis but they do it anyway you know or did you get a diagnosis from a specialist you know who specializes in
1:12:39
ADHD that we'd have to ask a multistage question to drill into how valid the
1:12:46
diagnosis is and just see then how that compares to other fields that have had
1:12:53
similar studies I'm assuming other studies have been done I could be wrong and compare and contrast to other industries it makes sense from a
1:13:00
theoretical perspective that ADHD prevalence will be much higher in TR it's part of what drew me to it because
1:13:07
it is dynamic improvisational you have to think on your feet it tends to be
1:13:13
very physical you know doing lots of different things you get to change constantly you don't have to do the same
1:13:19
old same old it tends to be lighter and paper work compared to the other that's part of why I went into instead of child
1:13:24
psychology I was warned away by child psychologists like we know you we know
1:13:29
how you feel about paperwork look for alternative therapies that's why I went down recreation and music therapy etc
1:13:35
because I want to work with the clients and actually deliver results not spend you know an hour because basically they're saying for 45 minutes of clio is
1:13:41
an hour of paperwork is what the point it's gotten to and with with with these
1:13:47
others you know it's more like 15 minutes of paperwork which is still a lot but more manageable well and with TR
1:13:54
if you're doing your paperwork throughout if you have a tablet or something that you're entering in yeah
1:14:00
depends what you put in you could realistically clean it up in five minutes and it would be done well I see
1:14:06
a lot of TRS doing it in that short of time and it's not very a lot of times not very good data but that's it that's
1:14:11
another topic so anyway this is this is
1:14:19
something I would love to do a study on you know in my copious free time I think
1:14:27
it would be but but it explains I think in part because 8hd constantly craves
1:14:33
new stimulus etc gets doesn't like to do the same old same old and this lobbying and marketing stuff is
1:14:39
very tedious and and the not what TR is about and there's very few researchers
1:14:45
in TR right I've had a lot of pressure from other to go on to a doctorate because I like
1:14:51
research and so few TRS actually like to do any research and there are very few
1:14:57
in the field a lot of them are retiring which means a lot of TR programs going to shut down if there aren't more PhDs
1:15:02
in the programs and I just can't stand school I love learning but I can't stand
1:15:07
the way school is done so you know the odds are unlikely but so it just seemed
1:15:16
you know and and how many times has Emily and dr. Cogley and all the others said I'm so ADHD or you know this and
1:15:23
sometimes doesn't often and others have been diagnosed and some of her really obviously so and it really would make
1:15:30
sense but it also would make sense why the industry is struggling because if it's if we have an entire professional
1:15:38
population riddled with ADHD it's going to be a problem to get our act together
1:15:44
as a group and it seems to explain my you know I've seen this for 15 years
1:15:49
have been very frustrated with the inability of the TR industry to really get its act together the way I've seen
1:15:56
other industries do and ot is doing and that's very concerning disabilities
1:16:08
because people flock to this because it's you can you can basically choose your branding oh yeah I'm not saying
1:16:16
it's closer to that but I'm just saying that would be a major contributing factor if the prevalence is I that would
1:16:21
statistically make it more difficult to get these other things that require consistency and perseverance and all
1:16:28
that and are not highly stimulating to come to fruition so I don't know till
1:16:34
the research has done it I'm making it up but it seems impossible but we need
1:16:39
to do something we really need to see when we're not even listed you know it's been bad enough about the insurance
1:16:45
thing in Medicare and Medicaid and all that but we're not even recognized in Google business and in the BBB as a
1:16:52
legitimate profession in and of itself that's really distressing and and so I
1:16:57
hope the BBB will be responsive to my request apparently it's the first time someone's request that they claim that may only be
1:17:05
for the region but and and that shouldn't be I mean I'm assuming there are other rec therapist practitioners
1:17:11
out there who want to be in the BBB I'm assuming I could be wrong I don't i
1:17:16
can't imagine I'm the only recreational therapist in the Better Business Bureau accreditation that would be a lot of the
1:17:23
times they're underneath I'm usually working in facilities yeah no but there are a number of independent
1:17:29
organizations out there that do TR so I don't know it's something I'd love to know more about and again a call out to
1:17:36
any co-hosts anybody interesting being a co-host or a guest on the show please
1:17:41
email TR talk show at gmail.com again the websites TR talk show com and so
1:17:48
we're gonna go and wrap up Danielle's there anything else you wanted to cover on a chair before we finish that it was
1:17:53
a lovely time and I wish we could have the trailer the entire time but unfortunately yeah the hotel had issues
1:18:00
with that yeah so hopefully we'll see more of the TR community on this show I
1:18:06
know some people have been interested but they haven't quite followed up yet hopefully they'll get around to it and
1:18:11
so we can get more varied insights on these many many topics related TR but I
1:18:18
hope you found this useful we went a little long because we needed to deal with the technical issues and such but I think overall actual broadcast time
1:18:26
it'll be about right so we'll be back again next Tuesday from 1 to 2 p.m. Pacific time and we hope you will join
1:18:33
us please do email or comment on the video and we are responsive we're also on Twitter I think let me make sure I've
1:18:41
got that working I think I've got a TR talk show yes since we're dot-com /t our
1:18:47
talk show or just at TR talk show so multiple oh wait maybe not
1:18:58
I wonder if Twitter deactivated again gosh darn it because you know when you first start an account and then they
1:19:06
yeah I'm logged in on one oh I haven't created the short URLs I got to fix that anyway a TR talk-show
1:19:13
gmail.com that's the best way to get ahold of right now is the show gross so back in there'll be episode 6 next week
1:19:19
so we're maybe be well and happy therapeutic recreation good night guys