Transcript of TR Talk Show Episode 2

Source Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFO_95Cm40E

Youtube autogenerated transcript:

3:54

hello and welcome to the TR talk-show therapeutic recreation recreation

4:00

therapy I'm your host Hawk Robinson with special guests we were hoping to have Daniel

4:08

Whitworth here as well but she has been ill not surprising after being at a

4:13

conference I wonder how many other people got the con crud I was fortunate

4:22

yeah luckily I managed to dodge both of those I mean I had when I came back into

4:27

town from Gen Con was it was the smoke

4:35

when we hit the smoke activated my lungs but other than that so we discuss all

4:40

things therapeutic recreation recreation therapy this is episode number 2 September 24th 2019 we had a delay from

4:48

the first episode because we were getting ready to go to the American therapeutic recreation Association's

4:53

national annual conference in Reno Nevada and we had a lot of prep work to

4:58

do because we had submitted three different proposals and it was our first

5:05

time submitting to ACTRA we've submitted before to the Washington State chapter and the Pacific Northwest Regional

5:11

chapter and done those before over the years since I've been presenting things since 2014-2015 at different therapeutic

5:18

recreation Association conferences and but this is the first time I went to the National when I was kind of waiting and

5:24

waiting until we had to we were more prepared so we sent three proposals they liked all three and asked if we would do

5:32

a full pre-conference workshop on the Saturday so September 14th and 17th the

5:37

Saturday it's a little they're scheduling is weird from other conferences that they made Saturday the

5:43

pre conference because usually Saturday's the big day for most conventions and conferences right right

5:52

well as I say they time shift it very strangely usually most conferences I've

5:57

been to professional or gaming otherwise you know you have a third Wednesday or Thursday pre conference or if it's a

6:03

smaller conference a Friday pre conference because people are still flying in they can't get off work until Friday etc and

6:09

then Saturday's your big day and then Sunday is kind of where things are busy up and told you the end of ceremony

6:15

around 3 to 5 and every guy catch their flights out of town and that usually works best around people's work schedules and they

6:21

scheduled it Saturday Sunday Monday Tuesday is very odd well they tell us

6:27

apparently is the first time they've really done a conference like this so that kind of explains there were a lot of strange isms about it you know we've

6:33

been going to conventions and conferences since the 80s on and off so

6:39

so they're trying to figure it out you know and it that we went it was at the Peppermill resort in Reno Nevada lovely

6:46

location nice facilities we had a little

6:52

bit of hassle about the parking and such and we had to address that with the bus

6:57

and the trailer that's not the convention folks issue per se we just

7:04

need to make sure we have a checklist that every time we're gonna be attic and

7:10

conference that we need the bus in the trailer which is most of the time because that's one of our big visible

7:15

entities right exactly what's that some

7:21

time I was a checklist I've had that checklist from the facility before in the past and I had sent that request

7:28

during my multiple request once we were accepted I had sent multiple requests about the parking over months and people

7:35

kept changing and it kept going from person to person and somewhere in the shuffle that never happened

7:41

unfortunately and I and I I knew it was missing and I kept requesting but we got

7:47

to where we had to be there and it just never got addressed and that came back to bite us but that was only after on

7:52

the last day so it wasn't too bad yeah but we we we had the the primary impact

7:59

that we wanted by having the trailer and the bus there and all convoy and all that so yeah well I wouldn't call damage

8:09

but missed opportunity yeah it's not damaged it's just miss doctrine more than that I was hoping to do interviews

8:14

and do a live TR talk show while we were there at atra and people

8:20

were interested but they were talking mostly about doing it the last day because they were so backed Philon their schedule and so I had to cancel all of

8:27

that so anyway we're here now it's episode number two we had a lot of people both online who saw the first

8:35

episode last month you know recorded version and were very excited to learn that we're doing this

8:42

and you know and I did this because I was looking around 40-hour talk shows therapeutic recreation talk shows

8:47

because we do a number of the talk shows we did our TV talk show I've done the synthetic Zen show Tech Talk with hawk

8:53

etc etc and it's a great way to connect the community and bring up all the

8:58

community issues Learning Resources professional issues etc it's a really

9:04

great way to connect to community and I couldn't find any kind of therapeutic recreation talk show so all right let's

9:11

create ourselves I don't have enough on my plate but I think it's important because of how much all of our work is

9:18

intertwined with TR heavily I think it's

9:23

in a great way for us to engage in the community and learn and do better ourselves as well by having those those

9:29

connections and resources so nobody else going to do it it seems appropriate for us to do it when I say us I mean RPG

9:35

therapeutics LLC and RPG research so what's churned about this from the

9:42

RPG talk-shows RPG talk show talks about role-playing games and research and

9:47

their potential uses from a therapeutic recreation perspective and research psychology and others and it's mostly

9:53

focused on that modality this with the TR talk show is everything TR and RPG is

9:59

just a small tiny bit when we're talking about a specific modality so it's a very different focus even though they're

10:06

overlapping if you look at the Venn diagram we got to consider amount of overlap there so we got to do the

10:14

all-day conference a presentation workshop attendance was good you know I

10:19

wish I could see the feedback reports I never get to see those generally everybody says they were positive that's

10:25

all I ever hear they never tell me the details I wish they'd give me a copy of what you know would like to be

10:31

improved things like that but that always seems to go to Hatcher instead but it was its CEU pre CEO credited to

10:38

the webinars receipt use now those webinars nobody was asking about because a lot of people couldn't attend the

10:44

Saturday session I know of at least half a dozen students who wanted to attend to

10:49

couldn't because their scholarship to attend didn't cover it and then a number of other professionals wanted to tend to just weren't able to go to conference

10:55

and we're very anxious to see the webinars or a live broadcast so at least a dozen or so people reached out saying

11:03

is there some way we can catch that content so the three three of our four

11:08

sessions are represented without the interactive aspect and without the audience assessments and such in three

11:16

webinars that will be available through the at recite through atra with CEUs so

11:21

you'll have to pay for those but you'll get there accredited but they said it'll

11:27

be a couple months out now we still have to go get them the quizzes and then they have to do all the editing and stuff like that so they're talking to a couple

11:34

of months out before those will be available and we've been asked you know to do more webinars so well that we can

11:40

do here in the studio and such and send them and the difference between those versus all those stuff we release for

11:46

free or through a patreon or through the paid classes through RPG therapeutics is that they're accredited that's the key

11:52

thing yeah and also our video editing

11:58

and everything they they don't have much experience with the whole video editing process and and media they're still very

12:04

new to that and we've been doing it for a lot of years so we have a lot more features and such so today we were

12:13

hoping Danielle Whitworth to be here but again she is the Gombu so it'll be mostly John because I was not able to

12:19

attend most of the other sessions we tried to get me to two sessions a day but between administrative stuff and

12:26

technical stuff and speaking with some really key people my and some of the

12:32

some of the things that I was signed up for weren't they were really rehashes of stuff I've done over and over over the

12:38

years so I didn't get to attend yeah yeah

12:51

which for you guys was because you guys haven't done this as much and so that was great that you guys get to attend

12:57

how many do you think did you get to attend total as far as the other presentations okay oh you know what I

13:11

gotta add your microphone exactly which

13:19

happened win and which ones I personally attended so I'm pulling up the list okay

13:25

I'm gonna tap your mic for a second please good didn't have you add it to this profile yeah so in Danielle's so you

13:36

guys split up right you did you both kept attending different ones rather than the same ones correct right now Daniel kept some really good notes yeah

13:43

I was honestly relying on you know I wrote a couple notes but I was relying the fact that the slides were supposed

13:49

ated danielle has the app I mean if you have if you have the app thing you can

13:56

download the slides for every well I'm gonna my phone is completely full so I

14:01

got to free it up first right yeah theoretically you download right yep and

14:07

that's what she was doing and she was gonna I think we're gonna have to do another session next week as well with

14:13

her here to share her experiences right I know she had a number that she was very excited about so let's have to go

14:19

over what you can remember from yours I mean we wouldn't it wouldn't be appropriate for us to go over the slide shows and just in this talk show anyway

14:27

but just the highlights from each right so what what was do you recall what the first one was that you attended well the

14:32

first one outside of our entire day was the opening keynote we missed that because we were still setting up no we

14:40

were breaking down oh we're breaking down from our from our workshop yeah yeah that's right that's right okay there's the just we didn't

14:46

have time because they we had to be out by 7:30 so we do it if they would have let us do it

14:52

after the keynote we could have attended the keynote but because we had to be out of there by 7:30 we had to spend all our

14:59

time doing that yeah the first thing that we attend use the general session

15:04

membership meeting awards and karta our car cart yep and they don't pronounce the e right and they talked mostly about

15:15

the financials things like hash tag we are atra where they spend their money

15:24

for example messaging marketing quality providers standards of practice evidence-based practice cart events

15:31

advocacy and legislation membership growth leadership so for those of you

15:37

who may be new to TR because we get students I know that cart and you will learn us that's required as part of your

15:43

CTR s certification it's the Committee on Accreditation of recreational therapy education so if

15:51

you're teaching recreation therapy courses if you want to have a program and such so it's an organization created

15:57

develop minimal quality standards for the accrediting university education programs in the field it was established

16:02

in 2010 and sponsored by atra cart is an approved accreditation program under the commission of a on accreditation of

16:10

allied health education programs CAA a cheapy carte Natura entered into a

16:16

ten-year contract from 2013 to 2022 in an effort to stabilize and standardize

16:21

higher education program accreditation specifically for the field the mission of cart is to promote the highest levels

16:28

of professional confidence of recreational therapists through the development and promotion of professional preparation standards the

16:35

encouragement of excellence in educational program development and the accreditation of recreational therapy

16:41

professional preparation programs and I think part of this comes from so there

16:48

has been seemingly an eternal struggle in the RTT are just by the naming alone

16:54

right industry so you know go all the way back to 1800s World War 1 World War

16:59

2 the foundation founding roots of records and therapy and music therapy and occupational therapy at a lot of

17:06

these other alternative therapies and we

17:11

saw two major areas that they developed from one was from the healthcare industry and the other was from the

17:17

recreation Parks and Recreation Division and you really had in TR NRT two

17:22

different divisions for decades and I think it was in the 70s 80s they started

17:28

to talk about merging between the the the national parks and rec organization

17:33

and the therapeutic recreation therapy organization and I think it wasn't until the early 2000s that that finally

17:39

happened that they merged and you know we got what we have without Rho and everything but even with ACTRA which is

17:44

American therapeutic recreation Association there has been a battle to say is it recreation therapy or

17:51

therapeutic recreation and some people like to use the analogy of it's two sides of a coin rec therapy therapeutic

17:57

rec others use other you know Venn diagrams and other ways to say that they're overlapping you know some

18:04

describe one as you know using the activities as they are without all of

18:10

the adaptive changes to you know achieve some beneficial goals overall that are

18:15

inherent to activity and others will talk about adapting the activity either with with adaptive equipment or changes

18:22

or just an activity that's really targeting specific measurable goals being the difference between recreation

18:28

therapy therapy recreation it's definitely interesting the dichotomy in

18:34

the industry in the profession and that has not helped because there's a lot of marketing issues with the profession

18:41

that ot is not struggled with like ot has been able to be more consolidated and that's helping them with lobbying

18:48

and licensing and now we see recently ot adding recreation to their charter you

18:56

know Washington State is one where they they kind of snuck that in and then other states as well it's popping up and

19:02

recreation therapy therapy rec unfortunately has really been struggling on the marketing and lobbying side and

19:08

that's one of things I hope this talk show will be able to address as we bring in other special guests and hopefully some some knowledgeable co-hosts

19:15

you know I got to meet with the president of atra and a few others and everybody said they were interested in

19:21

being on the talk show at some point as everybody gets their schedules worked out right so we should have some great guests on here and we can really discuss

19:27

these topics with people who know even more about it I've been peripherally aware of all the political issues I've definitely been

19:34

frustrated with how little the public even knows about this wonderful profession how bad the marketing is that

19:42

they're just that doesn't seem to be a whole lot of business savvy in this profession and part of it is they don't

19:48

get trained in it right I mean I come from multiple backgrounds including a business background and you don't really

19:53

see that business side you see a lot of academics and professionals you know who

20:00

are practitioners stepping up to administrative and business roles but not really with the professional

20:07

business background right we need you don't have a marketing major of goes into TR yeah and so you have a lot of

20:15

rec therapists who are used to being eclectic and wearing many hats stepping

20:21

up and doing what has to be done I mean I can relate to that but although but we

20:28

really need some of that industry professionalism to come in from other fields to help mm TR catch on more and

20:36

so I think the cart thing because I you know it I started in rec therapy in 2004

20:42

and so this kind of ember when it was evolving it got added to the training

20:48

all that and I think part of it is because for example there was a big kerfuffle some years ago this might be

20:57

related to it with the North Carolina programs and a few other states the way

21:04

their universities were running their TR programs were not in sync with many

21:10

others like 16 other programs around the country so you had real inconsistencies right between the programs then and and

21:17

part of it where it really shows up is when they go take the CTRs test you had the majority of these colleges you know

21:23

having like a 60 70 80 percent fail rate for the student the first time they take the test EWN reason

21:29

I chose that way back when is it was kind of easier than Washington University yeah it was when Cogley was running it I don't know where it is now

21:36

but it was it was the other way around it was only like 20 to 20 30 percent

21:42

were failing the first time because it had a lot more he was just I just I chose it as a program because I did my

21:48

research and I looked at North Carolina and New York and California and Utah and Arizona and all the top five programs

21:53

here after year and this little place in Cheney Washington out spoke outside of Spokane while she did because I wasn't I

22:02

was down in Idaho at the time and California and Oklahoma and Utah for that and it just kept coming to the fore

22:10

as a really exceptional program and won an award at one point some years later is one of the best programs in the country

22:15

so I think that has been a big problem as the inconsistency in the training

22:21

across universities and such and I think the car is trying to address that as that sound in line with what you were

22:27

yes I'm so talk talk more about that well they didn't discuss a lot about Kart

22:33

specifically during this particular meeting and I did not go to the Kart

22:39

specific one okay for the credentials okay I will talk that they did bring up

22:46

about five individual bills that they're trying to push forward mm-hmm at different states for for licensing well

22:54

these are not bills realizing these are acts they're going through Congress hopefully federal not state yep Oh

23:00

accessible ride-sharing accessible transportation exercise for all Act

23:07

money follows the person now that one I can talk a little bit more on money follows the person is the idea that

23:14

rather than a institution you know your

23:22

long-term care facility gets money based on how many people they have the

23:28

individual gets a certain amount right that gets spent now they can go to the long-term care facility or they can live

23:34

at home and still get rec therapy or what other therapies at home which would

23:40

tie in beautifully with our mobile right yeah yeah where's the and where

23:45

are these at in the processes mmm last ones mental health and Higher Education Act let's see here where is

23:52

that in the process money follows and are they partnered with other organizations so they've got more clout

23:59

paying for senior care was the group Affordable Care Act your 2010

24:05

strengthened things yeah first to strengthen things than it weakened

24:11

things its Medicaid beneficiaries living

24:18

institutions or less restrictive community services I don't have a thing

24:25

here immediately that tells me okay how far along they're in the process when it's gonna come up for a vote or

24:31

things like that okay the atra website should have more details about all of these all right

24:37

well and also there is the listserv the Oklahoma listserv I don't know are you part of that at all no okay I would

24:43

recommend getting on there that is the TR email list for everybody that's

24:50

that's pretty much what there is okay and they announced stuff and there's job postings and other things all the time

24:56

on there so I definitely recommend getting on there let's see you can get there through let's see to your listserv

25:04

I think it's a home edu

25:16

recreation it is specialist where is it

25:36

I've got it I mean I'm on it I get the emails all the time I can't always keep up with the the activity on it's not

25:45

super active but you know with everything else I'm juggling it can be a problem here it is oh oh that's how they

25:52

moved it to recreation therapy dot in that list I think it's still under yeah

25:57

so it's recreational therapy net at listserv not okay State not edu so

26:04

listserv ok state dot edu see if that

26:11

comes up ok yeah so if you go to lists serve all one word dot dot edu you'll

26:18

get a list of all of the email lists on there and you'll have to scroll down

26:27

through alphabetically it's not going to be on the first page I was like Tec

26:35

through Z at the bottom you click on that I believe you'll find what's in it

26:49

or no let's under are nevermind sorry that's recreation therapy isn't sort of therapeutic it's a there's no

26:54

consistency it's under recruitment it's

27:04

not publicly listed so there is a search engine for access unlisted servers so

27:10

let's see about that boy they just don't want to make it you would think that

27:15

that's why say they want everybody together the industry just isn't you

27:20

have to be logged in to access it all right so you have to create an account through the ok state ok M

27:27

yeah so I'm on it you might be able to get out through your atra account that

27:33

might be one way to do it but this is what I'm talking about it's not easy to get to these resources they should be

27:40

much more careful now I assume the at your site because again I've been on for so long I don't remember where I got on

27:48

it originally and it's changed management hands a few times so of

27:54

course the actual website is at Redondo matey are a online comm and so that's

28:01

where you can find a lot of great resources there's also a few other websites all they still have the actor

28:06

conference thing up on their page so I'm not feeling as guilty that they haven't gotten all of my pages up ticket they've

28:14

actually got people that are paying to run these things so versus of us being volunteers on that side there see

28:22

resources of the resources boy ok WH o

28:29

healthy people a da let's see if it's under listserv so this is a beautiful

28:37

example how we want to be able to have resources available for people and it's

28:42

not their search engines blew up I tried to use their search box in the upper

28:48

right hand corner and website blew up try it again and now it's working ok recreation therapy net not affiliated

28:58

with atra listserv so they've got a quick blurb that's really badly written

29:05

with no link or information on how to join it Wow this was a secret cabal I

29:12

know this is what I mean is is we really need to get this information out more

29:18

and we need to help each other get better at this so I've got my techie

29:24

background you know like when they were doing the webinars they were shooting it with a kitchen sink basically behind it

29:29

right laughing anything yeah off a laptop no external camera no lighting I

29:35

was like ok I mean it's better than nothing no lighting - did you

29:41

keep the lights in the room go off for you no no no no I mean they had the overhead lights in the room right should I be a horrible shadow for you I always

29:50

an hour and a half in there doing my timer big time run the lights when I want moving why didn't happen to me just

29:56

complete dark you think it's black behind me now yeah so I loaned them our

30:03

green screen and our external tripod with our external webcam and let them

30:08

use that until I had to go with a stand for the green screen and stuff so at least hopefully those webinar sessions

30:13

are a little bit better and I gave them advice for a microphone and a set up and a portable thing that's not that

30:19

expensive and so you know so this is where we need to help each other from our different professions and our

30:25

different backgrounds to get better at this there's rec therapy is a wonderful

30:31

occupation it's highly effective but part of why it isn't taken seriously is an awful lot of the people don't handle

30:37

it like other professions an awful lot of people in T are very casual about it

30:44

and and by being so casual it's not getting this in the respect that it's

30:50

due as a profession and a lot of work in research and evidence-based practice there that validates the efficacy of it

30:56

but the way we present ourselves in the TR industry is not very professional much of the time you see you know the

31:04

videos that are out there are often you know Facebook phones and selfie types and very casual clothing now it's

31:11

appropriate for some of the activities that are more physical you know but others you know they wouldn't hurt them to to just you know dress up just a

31:18

little bit nothing you have to be too fancy but it's I run my professional you you've got it I mean you got to be able to do a certain activity so you know TR

31:24

rec therapist do a lot of physical activities so you know if you've got a uniform to wear that's that's you know

31:31

Jim centric but uniform centric okay then if you're doing the activity it's appropriate but if you're doing a webinar then you might want to dress up

31:37

a little bit such and we saw some of that at the conference at least although was a little mixed there were some people there who are pretty darn casual

31:44

I think more of them were students but they're right at the senior level but they're there seem to be long-term

31:49

professionals there who did not it wasn't for their badge it wouldn't have known they were a professional there for the conference at

31:55

all a fair number of them a couple of them actually seemed like they were a tad different at a convention instead of

32:02

a gaming convention so yeah they're very casual and you know that and then the

32:08

website and such here at it I mean I can't show it on there right now but if

32:14

you go you know I did that that's the results I guess that two lines right there right and no links no explanation

32:20

nothing no alternatives to other lists

32:25

so and I understand of all people about how when you have a lot of content on a site of getting it all organized in a

32:33

way that's effective can be challenging and takes resources and friendly to visit yeah all of that so I and again I

32:41

wonder cuz you know they they charged a fair amount I don't know how much they spent on the convention itself I can

32:47

actually probably look at that mo did they give you that info I did it was one of the slides and how much money they

32:53

were spending on everything mm-hmm was that later towards the end or well

33:00

it's when I started that same session yeah it was the same session okay annual

33:07

conference 200 and this was the income this is how much they make from the

33:13

annual conference I'm suing this is last year's numbers two hundred and

33:18

sixty-four thousand three hundred eighty eight dollars okay what was their outlay just for the

33:24

conference expenses we could see mrs.

33:30

Marcus quality providers leadership relationship partners membership growth and professional development

33:36

it doesn't say specifically professional if it was under professional development

33:41

they spend one hundred and twenty two thousand nine m85 that's for the year though that's not a year yeah well I'm

33:47

curious how much they spent on the conference versus how much they brought in it

33:52

it just I mean I really would love to see for them having more impact and I'm

33:58

just not seeing out there I've been watching this for 15 years and it really doesn't feel like we've

34:05

made a whole lot of progress a little bit a little bit but for 15 years I

34:12

thought there'd be a lot more progress and some ways we've gone backwards with occupational therapy I'm really stepping

34:17

up and getting more organized I've been kind of concerned at rec therapy's

34:22

diminishing and I've gotten pressure from Dattilo and others that I should go

34:27

on to my doctor because you know they've got like 16 plus doctorate level TRS

34:33

retiring and then if they don't have a replacement those TR programs get shut down and so being one of the few rec

34:41

therapists who also likes to do research at everything there's been a lot of pressure for me to go on for that but

34:46

you know how I feel about even more school yeah so well again being

35:00

interdisciplinary and customized it if you look at the credits it would have been it's basically would built a

35:06

six-year program but took a lot longer because of being part-time but yeah cuz normally it's 180 credits

35:12

mine's like near upwards of nearly 300 so but anyway we really need to figure

35:21

out how to get the messaging better out there get the outreach better and really

35:27

figure out where the the money is going as far as efficacy and approach and then just general standards of

35:35

professionalism things that came out you

35:41

know as far as getting us out there for rest people is the hashtag we are atra but the US Department of Labor

35:48

Statistics talked about the income levels for TR right and well and just

35:55

being marked is how many people are working in TR okay what's the what's the latest one because I've seen those

36:00

numbers jump all over the place each year they didn't give us an actual number that goes with occupational code to go with okay which is 29 - 11 25 and

36:12

he says people aren't not you in the right code and this is the one you officially should be using is that

36:21

accurate or not well it should be accurate thank you that's the number that's recreational therapists yeah I

36:29

mean I've seen that maybe the code that they've been trying to push to be consistent and that's great that's not

36:36

what I've seen come up in a lot of database searches and such so I'm looking at it right now and force of

36:47

occupation and tuning 28 okay that's not that's definitely different information

36:54

than the other info I've looked at before so let's see what that says see

37:06

if it's in line with the previous ones that I've seen for management occupation

37:14

stub okay that's not that's not helpful

37:20

I mean for RPG therapeutics you're using a different code correct we have our own

37:26

yeah cuz we're not straight recreation therapy so we've got different codes for our different areas we don't have one

37:32

because we're multidisciplinary right we've got different nursing codes we've got different employment codes we've you

37:38

know so we don't fit under anyone if we were just recreation therapy and then we could do that but ya know we have we

37:46

have different codes for our different services music therapy artistry therapy

37:51

gaming entertainment consulting you think part of the reason is what well

37:57

you know people so many multidisciplinary things out that there's a big difference between

38:02

somebody who's using music as their modality and somebody who's using sled

38:10

hockey mm-hm or air rifle right well and there's a lot of people calling themselves rec

38:15

therapists that aren't okay so here's the numbers I usually find when I just look under recreational therapists

38:22

median pay forty seven thousand eight hundred and sixty per year 2301 per hour

38:27

that is low pay for health care industry now if you go independent that can go up

38:35

exponentially very quickly this is basically a lot of TRS come out and just

38:40

go work for a facility and don't do a lot of upward mobility some of them are not very vicious yeah coming from either

38:50

a sports background or an outdoors background they're happy to just get paid with doing what they kind of love

38:56

while helping people and so that has had an impact on the wages being pretty much

39:02

about the same for more in a decade and with the ACA I think they've been

39:08

flattened even more because the ACA has been dictating and as minimum wage keeps

39:13

rising and they don't exactly that gap is getting narrower exactly this is getting you know bachelor's degree

39:19

required to make just a little bit above minimum wage if people are less and less interested so you know Danielle talked

39:26

about how a TW they've been putting less and less into TR and more and more into

39:31

resort management because resort management's lucrative right take a look

39:37

at that compared but if I remember correctly the numbers were much higher well while you're looking at up to one

39:44

of the issues is with all these multidisciplinary and everybody using different codes is that when the

39:50

Department of Labor puts this together how many PR professionals are there

39:55

we're all using different codes so they don't all get added together right and

40:01

it makes us look like a smaller organization yeah so for example a lot

40:06

of managers are in the $60 and a hundred thousand dollar range Resort managers

40:12

and things right so you know double to triple to play with the pay ya know

40:17

there's certainly well and your talk about the employers putting in the codes is that what you're talking about I mean

40:23

where where who's supposed to be putting these codes in that you're talking about I would say that would have to be in the

40:28

employers and the occupant input occupational code when you're applying for unemployment using that occupational

40:35

code yeah if the numbers are right so

40:41

see ya so looking at that the numbers have definitely changed cuz when I used

40:47

to look at this ten years ago the number I was getting more was more in the thirty thousand range now it's only

40:55

showing nineteen thousand eight hundred and a seven percent growth over the next ten years faster than average but that's

41:03

a greatly reduced number from the number I used to see 15 years ago order rights

41:08

ago now part of that just maybe they're changing how things are getting entered

41:15

right they are being and you know part of it maybe maybe they're all maybe they're sticking more to those who are

41:20

certified first it says on the at recite at one point how many are certified think it's around fifteen thousand last

41:25

I saw though that was some years ago before the problems some of my market info is a little dated and I hope was we

41:31

get guests on the show the majority of monitoring some speak RS my understanding originally when I came on

41:37

board it was only half were actually certified and maybe that's improved I don't know that would be something I'd

41:44

love to have a guest or somebody observing bring us up to speed because I

41:49

don't I don't have all the answers here I'm creating a forum for discussion hoping that people will bring us all up

41:55

to speed on where things are not get some specialists and knowledgeable professionals in here who can say what

42:00

what the things are I only have my limited perspective of what's been happening I'm trending and such and that

42:07

I know means you know I haven't done heavy research into that for example because I've been doing my research elsewhere right so I'd love that other

42:14

people who do more of that could be on the show and post and comment about these things but it has been a concern

42:20

it seems to me and again I haven't been impacted that because I have an unusual

42:25

situation between my previous careers and what I was able to do and my flexibility and how I do things so I'm

42:32

less personally connected with the wage issues with TR other than as an employer

42:40

and and we do it in an unusual way so we've got a different audience and a different price point a lot of these are

42:47

in facilities that are very price sensitive very rigid Mary Brad yeah

42:53

which with the ACA has pushed wages down that will be paid to health care workers

42:58

and such right to try to manage costs you're seeing a lot of flattening of that and I'm wondering how much the ACA

43:03

has impacted that cuz these numbers I'm looking at for the hourly and the annual don't look much higher than what I think

43:12

when I was researching 2003 I think it was reading around 33 or 36 thousand and

43:19

about 20 an hour I think it was in that range it's what I was seeing back in 2003 I'd have to look through the charts

43:26

and see if that's accounted for but if you adjust for inflation to forty seven thousand eight sixty in twenty three an

43:32

hour I don't think that's even keeping up with inflation so you know can always

43:38

go look at an inflation calculator and so that and and and so that's why you hear a push for oh we need to take it to

43:45

the Masters level and my concern there is we don't even have this level nailed

43:52

down right did any constantly and such usually that happens like you saw in

43:58

physical therapy and such there was such a glut on the market a physical therapist you could justify raising it

44:04

to the Masters and then that got clotted so then they raised it to a doctorate level and then you had tiers of

44:10

assistance and such that work as they're working through their degree to the doctorate level to become a physical therapist and so you had that tiered

44:17

that your man physical therapy why don't you just become a doctor then it's a different it's a different focus it's a

44:23

very different focus and physical therapists can make very good money but

44:28

you have a lot of school to go through you know and remember of regular medical doctor MD is really only about a

44:33

master's level of schooling you don't have to go through as much school as if you go through the full PhD type

44:39

approach somebody who's a medical doctor just an MD has less school than somebody who's going through a PhD typically you

44:45

know there's fast-track options but that varies but yeah a lot of MDS are really just glorified masters really want a

44:51

fast track join the army yeah so so

44:59

there's been a lot of talk for years about raising the standard for the CTRs to the master's level because ot and

45:05

others have been doing stuff that so and sometimes they talk about

45:11

having an assistant at the bachelors level like you're an assistant therapy recreation specialist and stuff like

45:16

that which at least is somewhat in the ballpark but is there really demand for it is the thing I don't think the market well you get a look at market demand en

45:23

yeah well generally what they've done is if you already have your CTRs as long as you don't let it lapse you keep your CTRs even though they keep like every

45:30

five years changing the standards unfortunately because I was doing part-time and took so long we ran into

45:36

all the complications with the title of the degree and everything else but the

45:42

but is there a market demand to push it to the Masters level that's more student debt so we already have people choosing

45:49

recreation management and other avenues at UW and elsewhere because they look at

45:54

the cost to benefit ratio and they look at how much school is going to cost to

45:59

get the minimum requirements necessary to qualify for the CTRs and then how much income they're gonna make and how

46:05

long it could take them to pay off their student loans and look into these numbers it looks like never and now you

46:11

want to raise it to a master's level right which isn't I'm already not making it which isn't it Mike yeah I mean that

46:17

would only make sense if you've got pressure that you get such a glut on the market and pressure I just I just don't

46:22

think it makes sense from a market we need to improve the marketing first and the demand for it before you start

46:29

raising the to be even harder to qualify well have even fewer we don't have enough rec therapist as it is and you'll

46:35

have far fewer if you push that now that's just one perspective I'm not set

46:41

in stone on this but that's what comes to mind when I hear them talk about this and I would love to have people discuss

46:47

these topics I know these are controversial and we need to have them in a civil friendly productive

46:53

conversation like okay how do we address these issues really want these things to be solved I want to see TR flourish I'm

47:00

very concerned it's going backwards I may be wrong it might be my perception

47:05

being where I am and and the people we associate with I'm just getting a different filter about how the industry

47:14

is doing then is out there but I'm not seeing data that tells me that it's

47:20

otherwise and I'd love to have people on here to discuss that right and one of the biggest employers of course for the

47:28

CTRs is to go and find lucrative income outside of private practice would be the

47:34

VA is it do they pay better well better benefits and slightly higher

47:42

it's a GSA Levin mm-hmm so going in with

47:55

a bachelor's degree you're probably looking at a gs5 so this is several degrees higher than the average va gs-11

48:04

for recreational therapists hybrid title 38 is what they said I got this

48:09

information from David W Auto mm II m

48:15

TBC and of course CTRs dip Machado is

48:22

the national director of recreational therapy services for the Veterans Administration so the average pay for

48:28

rec therapists in the US working for the VA is 61 thousand nine percent so that

48:34

is notably higher yes that that is so we're looking at the BLS number nowhere

48:40

to go all right so forty so so let's just call that 48 62 so yeah we've got

48:46

we've got what about a fourteen thousand dollar difference there and that makes it a little more interesting for people

48:52

to get when they're doing the math about their student debt I'm not to mention this is a federal job with federal

48:58

benefits mm-hmm which you're not going to get at a private hospital well at

49:04

that varies that totally varies from facility to facility but yeah so these

49:12

are the things that need to be discussed we want we want this to be an open forum for these things we want to hear the different sides of the concerns and

49:18

arguments what what else did you come across there so these this is this all this stuff we

49:23

want to put out here we hope you will offer to be on the show please do comment and the video send emails to

49:30

info at Rp now let's do it for now I don't trust in the email server send it to our PG therapeutics for now wait

49:37

maybe have a TR talk show email let me check that must tractors it's been a while how many do you have can't count

49:43

that high yeah what was the other thing you were you attended as well while we're looking this up well that

49:48

particular one that I was when I've mentioned him that was the the

49:54

recreational therapy with VA it was called at resection veteran and military

50:03

treatment section so they divide you up into sections based on your populations

50:09

now we're different we're a modality and not a population RPG research don't be

50:15

therapeutic right yeah we we use music and role-playing game modalities well across

50:22

all the populations from two and half years old for seniors and everything in between so yeah we're different that way

50:29

the biggest thing that I got from there besides some websites to check out was

50:36

the making contacts with people there was one person who specifically asked

50:43

whether or not they were using role-playing games if there was any research about role-playing games with a

50:48

veteran population and of course RPG research was brought up and we have

50:54

somebody who wants to apply to be a researcher for that topic there was also

51:01

people that were working in the prisons and when asked why he came to this

51:06

particular one he says there's a surprisingly large number of veterans in prison mm-hmm you know it's it's not

51:14

surprising unfortunately it's been that way a long time right yeah it's it's not

51:22

very well yeah indeed especially if you're in the combat fields yep

51:28

and you're in your veteran as well right correct just 21 years US Army the other

51:35

thing that of course I got to meet mr. Otto he went to talk to the vice

51:41

president last week hopefully vice president of the United States yes Mike

51:48

Pence right actually I think if I heard him correctly he was actually talking to

51:54

miss pence okay mrs. pence I don't always get that wrong okay

52:00

that was the first thing I got to go to I went to another class that was about

52:21

gender first worth of the identity class mm-hm and this was about people having

52:29

crisis identity this isn't necessarily a gender identity issue this is an

52:34

identity of who I am to identify myself as a vet to identify myself as a father

52:42

to identify myself as an employee of

52:48

this particular organization you know where my identity and identity crisis is that people had as well as their types

52:57

of how they deal with identity and I

53:06

wish I had that slide we talk better on that the investigative identity

53:12

modalities the best one where you actually look at your identity and

53:18

things like that there was a game that was introduced that I hadn't heard of before it was called honor ball have you

53:24

heard of that no so and this goes into your identity am I an honorable person

53:30

and honor ball is has only three roles you cannot make a bad catch you cannot

53:38

make a bad throw and you may not speak if you break any of those rules you have

53:44

to sit out okay so while you're playing

53:51

you have to non-verbally identify was I

53:56

being honorable was that a bad catch or was it because he made a bad throw they

54:04

said there wasn't a bad you cannot make a bad catch that's a rule okay so if

54:11

there can be bad throws you cannot make a bad throw okay if you make a bad throw

54:16

oh okay I thought you're saying that there were no bad throws or bad catches no no that's a penny to go anyway not to

54:23

okay so if I throw the ball far to your left and you can't possibly catch it

54:28

that's a bad throw I have to sit out so the thing is when I throw it close to

54:35

you and you just don't grasp it was it a bad throwers it a bad catch since we can't talk about it we have to do

54:42

internally decide what is the honorable thing to do okay and of course when we

54:50

argue about it we've immediately broke the rules in our out now right okay and

54:57

what do they explain is the efficacy of this they do not go into numbers on that

55:04

okay well what are the targeted goals even they don't have numbers the

55:11

targeted goal was to identify whether or not you felt yourself you're an

55:17

honorable person okay there's different levels and this is where the slides would have came in handy of you know

55:24

from people who are going well nobody's honorable so it's irrelevant to I obeyed

55:30

the rules so I'm honorable right and other levels

55:36

is I did my best to analyze the throws

55:42

and the catches and make a determination from that okay and that's the analytic

55:49

identity level that was in there

55:56

that was the identity what went to went to the one about it's the alphabet for

56:13

what LGBT can yes yes correct those kind of clients some of this was

56:20

for in-house stuff for example I learned new terms for prosthetics and the

56:28

nicknames they use so if somebody comes up and asks you for cookies or a loaf they may not be hungry hmm

56:37

cookies and loafs are padding whether they're silicon or cloth to enhance

56:46

breasts packing is to enhance male genitalia mm-hmm

56:54

I learned that hermaphrodite is now a

56:59

foreboding term it's no longer politically correct it is now intersect

57:04

or Sony's their sex and they also talked about one of the other things I think you'll find interesting is person first

57:13

terminology right I am a person experiencing bisexuality as opposed to I

57:23

am bisexual mmm-hmm a lot of the people

57:28

in the LGBTQ are finding that offensive yep and sending disability you have so it's

57:34

been taught in TR for a long time that is a person with a disability not the person is disabled or is the disability

57:40

and now you have people that actually are offended by that that know their disability is their or their difference

57:49

like say autism spectrum or something some people are very offended if you say a person diagnosed with autism spectrum

57:56

versus somebody saying they're autistic or you know they're on that does inspect there there

58:02

isn't consistency in what people want and the thing you had to come back to in the hopes that they're willing to without being offended is you know what

58:10

term do they prefer to be used as kind of what it comes down to because it's become such a minefield the last decade

58:17

knowing what to refer to anybody in any way right whether it's descriptive or

58:22

pronouns or what-have-you it's become very problematic and there was another

58:28

class that you know fits all on this little theme I was when we had recreation therapy with LGBTQ

58:35

populations that was on Tuesday but there was one after that with another on promoting diversity and cultural

58:42

competence is a vital element of recreation therapy practice education and this one turned out to be not more

58:52

how to get better in dealing with your clients but was how how can rec therapy

59:00

do better how can the atra conference do better and promoting these these things

59:09

there was some examples given Martha

59:15

Martha's Vineyard mmm-hmm at one point everybody on mother's Vineyard spoke

59:20

American Sign Language hmm because there were some really active deaf community

59:27

there there was active people and the entire element you have your language we

59:33

have our language he just became the thing the norm that everybody who lived

59:38

there spoke sign language so nobody was excluded mm-hmm not sure why that went away eventually

59:45

probably couldn't scale weird thing is

59:52

apparently acceptable to walk between two people are talking in sign language he said something you know of yeah you're it yeah it depends you're you

1:00:00

maybe want to do the excuse me as you go between and such but and that also

1:00:06

depends on the region so remember a there's accents too signing in different

1:00:11

different regions and there is an etiquette by different regions and the East Coast tends to be more

1:00:18

dog-eat-dog cutthroat fast-paced and they consider being polite rude so like

1:00:26

if you come so here in the northwest which is considered very polite Canada even more so if you come up to the

1:00:31

coffee thing raised in line at Starbucks or whatever and like hey how you doing this morning oh I'm doing okay great

1:00:36

what can I get for you know that little that chatter back and forth on the East Coast that's wasting everybody else's

1:00:42

time in line it's rude for you to politely ask how somebody's doing and

1:00:47

such which we consider a polite thing to do right we consider it rude to go ahead and know your order and you better have already told us it's rude for even the

1:00:54

back and forth you just suppose it yeah give me this and this this this great move on next person next person that's

1:01:00

not rude in the East Coast whereas here would be like oh my goodness what a jerk right so it's a

1:01:06

very rounded all these regional things and then the difference between that's more City versus more rural you know

1:01:12

suburban and rural areas in the same area oh it gets very difficult to do that and same thing in sign language

1:01:18

it's very cliquey culture the deaf and hard of hearing deaf community is very cliquey more about that yeah okay so to

1:01:30

be part of the deaf community you have to be born deaf and speak sign language

1:01:39

that is one of the cliques right there are others who are completely embracing

1:01:45

if you lost your hearing when you're older there are other but there is a lot of animosity towards getting cochlear

1:01:52

implants right now that one there's a lot of animosity about and then there's

1:01:57

the next group of people because they feel you're stealing them you're stealing them away from their culture yeah yeah cultural brokers cultural

1:02:05

brokers are people who are outside of the community mm-hmm but our allies

1:02:12

they're the ones who are trying to bridge the gap between the outside culture and the insight yes as I've done

1:02:19

with the deaf and hard of hearing community rank raters you're a cultural broker for the deaf and hard of hearing but you're not a part of the

1:02:24

correct because you can hear I'm actively engaged with the community on and off but no yeah I'm definitely not

1:02:31

part of the community and I've been bounced from click to click because I

1:02:38

got one ASL instructor fire well made it

1:02:43

so her contract would no longer be renewed at the University because she wasn't showing up two-thirds of the time to her classes over multiple quarters

1:02:51

that's very inconvenient classes thus I got a petition signed and took it to the department at Dean and they did not

1:02:59

renew her contract and somebody leaked that and so that particular clique that I've been interacting with a lot no

1:03:04

longer wanted to come to our study groups and other things after that mmm but I'm a whistle blower I've done it

1:03:12

before I did it in nursing you know dogs eh because lives were being impacted horrifically and I will not hesitate to

1:03:19

point out when something terrible like that's going on I prefer not to be attacked over it but you know and do it

1:03:25

through the proper channels but people tend to leak anyway um but I still did

1:03:31

the right thing like with the nursing thing where they're leaving people in restraints all night long and I'd come on shift to go oh my god they've been

1:03:36

sitting in fecal matter for eight hours that's just wrong and that got five

1:03:42

nurses fired did not make me popular when it got leaked that I was involved with that but these were human lives

1:03:49

that were being horrifically treated and somebody had to do something and nobody had been like that for years

1:03:55

so yeah same in the deaf community if there's somebody out there who is misrepresenting she was hard of hearing

1:04:03

but very deaf and was part of a clique a sub clique of the deaf community in the

1:04:09

area and was teaching pidgin sign rather than proper American sign language

1:04:14

really bad ASL not not Pryor everybody was going through that every else is

1:04:20

gone where did you learn that song yeah it was bad and you know I pay out of my

1:04:26

own pocket for all my classes I don't have loans or grants or anything so I'm a little more price sensitive to what I

1:04:32

get out of my classes than a lot of the young uns who just kind of it's as big a more fewest they don't really understand my oh yeah

1:04:39

I spent $3,200 on this class I'm gonna get my money for it so you know yeah but

1:04:48

it but it's interesting cuz then they'll be other members are going oh yeah she doesn't represent us at all we've been really frustrated all those you know she

1:04:54

she does a good job of bringing everybody to the deaf coffee chat but then nobody there knows how to sign

1:05:00

properly because she's teaching tomorrow it's so right oh my goodness Oh mr. part of what odds the isolation

1:05:07

of the deaf community that's why the games and such that we did Roebling hymns are so helpful to try to bridge that gap so yeah but yeah I will never

1:05:14

be part of the deaf community even if I lost my hearing today was signing and all that I still wouldn't be fully part

1:05:20

of the deaf community we can just say there be some groups long way and my signing would still be too much sign me

1:05:27

too much English format instead of flipped around more French format than ASL is based on now you speak sign with

1:05:34

a funny accent well I say it in the wrong orders I sound like Yoda not sound

1:05:44

like but sign like you know which is what most said of your arms are blue most hearing signers you know are that

1:05:49

way so and there's a lot of people in the deaf community of her just glad that you're making the end of this with Russian and others but before coming to

1:05:56

Spokane whenever I when I used to be able to speak more Russian when I'd speak

1:06:01

Russian to anybody they'd appreciate it that I'd made the effort I came to Spokane I started

1:06:07

running into fundamentalists here they're some sort of Christian

1:06:12

fundamentalist worth about something and part of a expression yes something and and like there was one

1:06:19

up the street who just was just rude about it it's like French right the

1:06:25

French yeah look it doesn't matter if you're french-canadian whatever if you're not speaking me correct French

1:06:31

alright Victor Hugo wrote about that extensively in the unabridged version of

1:06:37

a miserable ode such about the ruination of the French language so we get these clicks everywhere and for exams the deaf

1:06:43

community and the problems the deaf community being nine times more likely to get abused you know it they can't afford to be that further

1:06:51

isolated it's it's really unfortunate when they do that so you know we got over nine hundred plus deaf and

1:06:57

hard-of-hearing known in the greater Spokane area and that number is probably ten years old and you know I go to the

1:07:04

deaf events and there's maybe 30 50 60 people maybe a hundred right it's an awful lot of people left out of the

1:07:11

community I wish that sign language was taught alongside English in grade school

1:07:19

some do some do a bit because it has they found research that because of the

1:07:24

motor skills thing it has it has developmental benefits and so there been a number of private schools and in

1:07:32

charter schools and such that the Kinneret preschool kindergarten early grade level teach sign language early on

1:07:39

my son is autistic was learning sign language at the

1:07:46

beginning as part of his speech therapy but unfortunately that didn't continue

1:07:51

and especially when you move from school to school you can't take that with you so this is great I'd love to do this as

1:07:58

a deeper topic but what were some of the other things you covered natura cause we're running over here yeah we wanna

1:08:03

have time for Danielle's stuff next week if she can make it well actually I ran through all of them

1:08:11

I combined some of them together oh those are that those are the topics that most one did you think was the best put

1:08:18

together the VA the VA one okay well I

1:08:25

think for me personally was the most effective okay so that might just be personal connective but yes that just

1:08:32

connected with you the bows the least effective was the last one I talked about which was promoting diversity and

1:08:39

cultural competencies a vital elements for recreation therapy I thought that was the least well the other one of

1:08:46

things that were supposed to be very interactive mm-hmm and you had personally laughing you okay now you need to discuss this thing both of you

1:08:52

she'd finished what her sentence was we're out of time yeah and then we had a movie they didn't they

1:08:59

didn't facilitate okay now switch okay now riot yeah that's a big mistake

1:09:05

on their part it's a basic facilitation technique and like the last half of it

1:09:10

was talking mostly about what you know give us the information of how we can do

1:09:16

better as atra mm-hmm when we at I'm pretty sure most people who went there to get the information from a trailer

1:09:22

not right well from these specialists right right so people came to us oh yeah we gave them a fire hose of information

1:09:29

part of their in their defense uh uh was that the person presenting was not

1:09:36

scheduled to present oh and the entire board for the diversity and cultural

1:09:44

competence wasn't there she's on the board but she wasn't mine

1:09:49

to be the presented and the board that was supposed to be there wasn't those that their flight was that the one I heard the flight didn't someone wrong

1:09:55

with the flight I think so that's why I also the other one I missed was the wreck therapy and prisons oh okay well

1:10:03

that person didn't make it yeah there were a lot of leading up to the conference a lot of cancellations

1:10:08

especially it's Saturday 3:00 on the first day one in the next stage of 412 and more yeah and then more yeah and I

1:10:16

don't know what that was about I don't know if it's because they saw the numbers were too little or what happened but that's also really unprofessional I

1:10:22

mean it happens we see it in conferences where people cancel storms happen things like that happen but I was surprised at

1:10:28

the sheer number of cancellations that took place yeah but still I mean there

1:10:35

was there was a lot of great stuff going on there so I really look forward to Danielle's side of this and I you know I

1:10:42

hope you'll be here too yeah it'll up sure it'll trigger more of your memories and thoughts about it overall what did

1:10:47

you think of your time not counting that I spent five grand on this whole record

1:10:53

everything being worried about the cost it cost for you personally how do you feel your time was spent at this

1:10:59

conference I decide what we did not what we had you going to these these presentations and such how did you feel

1:11:06

about your time I thought my time was well spent I had to be very selective

1:11:11

about which ones I went to I did find that one of the other people

1:11:17

are going there it was like we're following each other around because we love the same tastes yeah we went to the

1:11:23

same tracks mine were all the ones that involves her on inclusivity I wanted to

1:11:30

go to the prison one because I felt that was related to what would we do but I

1:11:36

got Mike marks my sorry he just actually talk into the mic Edition not on it it's

1:11:43

a terrible taste funny okay I thought it was a good use of my

1:11:49

time if but if I'd literally hadn't been there under somebody else's budget there's no way I could have afforded it

1:11:55

hmm that was brought up in that inclusivity things how do we get more people from

1:12:00

these different cultures to show up as a nation they don't need to do a conference at a really fancy smancy facility one person

1:12:09

stated and definitely not at a casino I I will never come back to another one in

1:12:17

a casino they said that yeah that one uh two reasons one the gambling is against

1:12:23

their beliefs but more importantly the pervasive smoking no I was down in the

1:12:34

casino pits right well I didn't do it yeah I know when I went down to the

1:12:40

casino pits and you know when you come in the front door it's more persuasive we were gonna always link to the back door okay so we weren't we weren't

1:12:46

getting those crowds but when you go through the front door you have more or less bookings and there is a no smoking

1:12:53

zone in the casino pits do you have to walk all the way through all of the smoking area the opposite of what we

1:13:01

usually experience that's funny Wow okay so if you don't see me weird I'm not

1:13:07

sure why they chose that particular venue unless they got some special

1:13:13

financial break it seemed like a huge waste of money unless they get some kind of break I think financial break may

1:13:21

have been given especially if they filled room space cuz that's how these normally work is you have to sell so

1:13:26

many rooms in that casino or hotel that you're in setting up in but the other thing I

1:13:32

maybe size those not that was not a very big conference no no not the size of the

1:13:39

conference conference Susan but the size of the space they had available and

1:13:45

they're looking for room for growth which I don't think would have been a very good choice because you move for

1:13:51

every year to another city yeah but the space they had available for us

1:13:56

which was a fraction of the space they could have given us was significantly

1:14:02

large mm-hmm there's a lot of wasted space yes yeah but I'm thinking that may

1:14:09

have been a consideration of why they chose that because they were expecting more people to show up yeah I mean I'd

1:14:14

love if they'd have me on or you on their planning vention planning

1:14:19

committee because it's because from talking to them they don't have anywhere near the experience we have with conventions and conferences they have

1:14:27

attending but as I said this is their first time they said putting it together and so I'm not sure about there why that

1:14:34

was if it did that right I don't know I'd love to know more about why that was but it was clear this was kind of new

1:14:40

for them and for being new I'd say they did pretty well if they've never done it before but there was an awful lot I mean

1:14:47

I had to repeat myself over the six-month period over and over and over

1:14:52

to the different people the same people it was very challenging right we didn't

1:14:59

have one person who stayed in charge of it for the entire length of the time yeah there wasn't a speaker's

1:15:05

representative that would handle the speaker's right I had to I had with the only way I actually got answers to

1:15:11

questions I started when I I had spoken to half a dozen different people over the months we were getting down to the

1:15:16

wire and I didn't have resolution on anything other than that we were supposed to be there I had no scheduled a no parking arrangements I had no idea

1:15:23

about any of this stuff so I found every single person I'd talked to over that past six months five months and sent my

1:15:30

questions to all of them and just kept see seen everyone simultaneously that

1:15:35

was the only way I was able to get those things mostly resolved although still not fully I shouldn't have had to do that and it

1:15:43

in it and it's a burden on them too right I didn't break my head to some long emails of a lot of details and people who have no interesting

1:15:49

conversation whatsoever had nobody unfortunately so I hope that they find

1:15:55

it is gonna be a different group next time if they're doing the same three year where you're on two and then you

1:16:01

know you do like a year of transition in a year on your transition out are they doing that same kind of thing with that

1:16:07

row that they do at other regional ones I don't know right a lot of administrative stuff I don't know how

1:16:12

many years they're saying I find with conferences and conventions that a one

1:16:19

year or two year plan for your leader is not a good idea because what happens the

1:16:24

moment you figure out how to do it do you're gone it's brain drain and the next person well and here's the other

1:16:29

thing generally you can't be on the board unless you're CTRs so we were talking

1:16:34

earlier about needing other professionals to help inform the rec therapist about how to do things

1:16:40

professionally from other fields but you can't be really have a voice unless

1:16:46

you're a CTRs all right so you can't bring in other expertise to address other areas that are kind of outside

1:16:53

with us because the CTS doesn't handle it see Jairus doesn't train you to do any of this the CTRs is irrelevant to

1:16:59

convention organization rather than management well no that's the event

1:17:04

management and planning is is part of the TR trade but they don't really they don't really have much training on the

1:17:11

whole conference thing right but you are event planning that is all part of your planning implementation evaluation which

1:17:18

speaking of which we'll wrap this up because we're going over but these are just one of the many topics we would

1:17:24

love to discuss and have people answer and enlighten us and light and others and and see what your thoughts are but

1:17:30

here's a thread from the recreation therapy net thing on a fundamental thing

1:17:35

a PI versus a pied right so you know it's assessment planning implementation

1:17:41

evaluation versus documentation in the Naidoo /r for re really not wide

1:17:47

replanting you go through it's the iterative process and they're saying

1:17:52

with the cart that while it's great to have these discussions a pie is the cur is this is

1:17:58

the so this is from David Austin Indiana edu who says I have long a prison a long

1:18:06

thread of conversations I won't read all of that this is the most recent response I have long appreciated a man a mired

1:18:13

sandy Negley for all she has done to advance our t you know start inna TR I

1:18:18

could not agree more with Sandy that our T curricular reform should be an issue that we must remain passionate about if

1:18:25

we are if we truly care about our students and the preparation they receive I believe however that our

1:18:31

discussion of the topic of curriculum reform should not sidetrack us from our discussion of the arty process aka a

1:18:38

pipe in fact from the discussion of a fundamental change being made without

1:18:43

input from those in the profession ie altering a pie to a pied there are several things students should learn

1:18:50

through their curricula such as a transparency by organizations is key to bring about openness accountability and

1:18:57

communication something not evident when the at reward past the a pie demotion B

1:19:03

no matter how well-meaning they are leaders of a national organization representing a profession can be

1:19:09

challenged when they make a substantive decision without engaging the membership or providing a clear rationale for the

1:19:15

change and see changes in long-standing tradition eg a pie that represent a

1:19:21

fundamental foundation for practice should not be allowed to take place without lengthy discussion see this is

1:19:26

the communication I'm talking about there's an inner community squabbling yeah you know and then he's doing it

1:19:32

very professionally inappropriately but sometimes it gets and in fact they're arguing about whether or not documentation is part of your job well

1:19:39

they're just say as far as the acronym of the process versus the other steps included so the other people say you

1:19:46

know well documentation should just be implied that's the problem too many people assume that the

1:19:52

implication is being noted and if you don't have the reminder people don't do it in TR that's a real problem the

1:19:59

documentation is a problem so he continues additionally documentation does not occur only at the end of the

1:20:04

Aarti process but follows each phase that correct I agree or step by adding a D to

1:20:12

a PI those using a PI no longer can claim it represents the RT process because a process is a series of phases

1:20:19

or steps a PI does not represent a process it is simply the a PI process with the D tag on further there is no

1:20:26

evidence within our body of knowledge that calls for any alteration in the RT process ie a PI in fact the a PI process

1:20:33

is deeply embedded into the literature of our profession it is found in all major text books of our profession

1:20:39

including those published in 2017 2018 2019 that's newer but yeah like Debby

1:20:44

Hutchins another arti professional held in high regard I also endorsed the prior action taken by the at reward to sponsor K CAA is

1:20:53

kappa / cart as the accreditation body for the profession it is unfortunate

1:20:59

that when adopting a pied the @ report did not refer to the accreditation standards they had previously supported

1:21:06

that spell out the arti process to be a assessment treatment planning implementation and evaluation ie a PI

1:21:14

under 11.7 within the cart category of foundations of professional practice and by the way the decision to adopt a PI

1:21:22

within cart standards was based upon input from those in the profession I am

1:21:27

pleased with the resulting discussion of the adoption of a plied by the at report I look forward to others sending along

1:21:34

their views via the RT listserv for those who wish to read a fairly extensive piece on the ape ID

1:21:39

controversy please see the editorial quote needed an opportunity for

1:21:45

recreational therapists to have a voice in defining the Aarti process end quote published in 2019 volume 18 number 2 of

1:21:51

the American Journal of recreation therapy as a founding member of a try absolutely want our professional society

1:21:58

be strong like Debbie I would like for us to increase the membership of that row I believe in open discussion of the

1:22:05

ape ID issue is a good step in the direction of promoting our professional association as one being made up of a

1:22:11

large number of members who care enough about our profession to call for open communications among recreational

1:22:17

therapists and determining what should constitute the Aarti process a fundamental element within the

1:22:22

practice of recreational therapy carry Kessinger has raised a good question of why atra leaders have not communicated

1:22:29

with the membership regarding objections raised to adopting a pied it appears the

1:22:34

time is now that the time is now for a full account of how and why a pied came

1:22:41

about and whether the at reward is open to hearing the views of its membership and reconsidering its decision best

1:22:47

regards to all our teas David R Austin PhD FD RTF ALS so these are the kind of

1:22:53

discussions that sometimes happen on the list and show that there needs to be a more unified forum for this kind of

1:22:59

discussion I would love to have people on here remotely and locally debating these topics openly having a live just

1:23:07

Lively potentially civil respectful but lively discussion about these kinds of

1:23:13

topics and these things come up all the time in the listserv which is my main window into what's going on outside of

1:23:19

my Northwest and then when I'm at conferences that's about it right so because I am a little bit outside of the

1:23:25

the TR community because of our area of focus but it is our foundation of what we do and so I hope you found this

1:23:33

useful we had a lot to cover we have a lot more when Danielle is here next week hopefully we'll get her side of things

1:23:40

I'm a little worried that's gonna be pushed more distantly in the past for her memory right well the head forget

1:23:46

but hopefully both of you can make it next week you guys won't be regulars on

1:23:51

here because you've already got all the other commitments but at least getting this rolling because we were all there

1:23:57

at Natura and I think that that you guys really had some wonderful insights and I think it helps further the discussion

1:24:02

here so please do comment on the YouTube stream or I quickly set up and I'm

1:24:07

testing to make sure it works now T our talk show at gmail.com they're not

1:24:13

trusting the GoDaddy servers right now rehearsal David Griffith can't make tonight's

1:24:19

rehearsal but overall he's getting on board a new job that's gonna give him

1:24:26

more freedom so that's good yeah total tangent there but yeah so assuming it's

1:24:31

working I'm came through I just set it up through Google because again I until we get all

1:24:36

of our mail servers moved off and GoDaddy it's been too flaky let's see

1:24:43

here I did it I did a couple of test emails I'm seeing if they went through you can do RPG therapeutics at gmail.com

1:24:50

but I want it to be something dedicated to the show and I'm trying to make sure that that is working so please work so

1:24:57

before I wrap up here yes okay so you

1:25:07

can email TR talk show at gmail.com

1:25:14

that's easy enough any questions comments we would love if you're interested in being a coast you

1:25:20

can do so remotely you don't have to be in Spokane area I would love to get Emily or somebody from our board anyway

1:25:27

right talk show I think she'd be a wonderful resource off to talk to her but she's got such an overloaded schedule but maybe maybe we can make

1:25:33

talk her into it but I'd love to have maybe might have to do an on live one

1:25:39

yeah cuz the class I don't know we'll figure it out but and then you know we may have to adjust this this show may

1:25:45

have to adjust its timeslot to accommodate the most people because right now a lawful water in class right

1:25:54

it might have to be later in the evening or something you know which would have to be a different day because if fates

1:25:59

revolt on Tuesday nights but we'll figure it out we're getting thing and then add four hours for the East Coast jigs the three three hours yeah no

1:26:06

exactly so so if it's 6 p.m. here it's 9 p.m. there which usually isn't too bad we'll have to figure that out so we're

1:26:12

getting this rolling this is how we get these organically started talk shows going I've done it before over the years on both terrestrial radio and internet

1:26:19

radio for decades and we'll get it dialed in so that we have the sweet spot

1:26:26

for that but we hope you found it useful more updates on the TR talk-show comm website there's not a whole lot there

1:26:32

yet I'll start putting up links for the show archives as we accumulate them I'll start setting up at some point here

1:26:38

submitting into actual podcast we don't get a youtube / custom URL until we get

1:26:44

to about a thousand subdue follow if you go to tier talkshow

1:26:50

calm I'll have a link to our YouTube channel which doesn't have a nice URL it's a long and complicated thing we

1:26:57

don't get that until we get like a thousand thousand views took at least a thousand views in certain number of

1:27:02

videos I think 50 followers we can't get a custom URL on YouTube so you don't get

1:27:07

our channel having a nice name which would be like tea our target /tr talk-show right so until then just use tea our talk-show

1:27:14

calm and I'll have all the links to everything from there so thank you for joining us thank you for bearing with us

1:27:20

as we start to get this all figured out thank you John so much for joining really appreciate it so much better than

1:27:25

just being me right first episode was just me talking about the potential of where we want to go with the show right

1:27:30

with you talking about these at the atra conference it's showing what our current one of the many topics that we want to

1:27:38

cover a little bit from the email list I think I'll make that a part of a regular thing that we take at least one topic

1:27:43

from the email list each time that's become a discussed like we do with the Tolkien letters on the Tolkien Society

1:27:49

show alright well thank you for joining us and wherever you may be have a wonderful day and happy

1:27:56

productive therapeutic recreation and recreation therapy have a good one

Cleaned up Transcript (pending)